Slappin’ Glass sits down this week with the Head Coach of the Tokyo Hachioji Trains in Japan, Tyler Gatlin! The trio explore the exploding basketball culture in Japan, why 3 v. 3 is such a big part of youth and pro development, and discuss creating advantages for Bigs and not giving up 3’s during a technical and tactical “Start, Sub, or Sit?!”
Transcript
Tyler Gatlin: 0:00
Coach Roy last year used to say the offense must feel attacked. Just like you want to attack defense, it’s the offense must also feel attacked. That’s a really good basketball situation where you can attack an offense with your pick and roll defense.
Dan Krikorian: 0:19
Hi, I’m Dan Krikorian and welcome to Slapping Glass Exploring basketball’s best ideas, strategies and coaches from around the world. Today we’re excited to welcome Hachiojis’ head coach in Tokyo, japan, Tyler Gatlin. Coach Gatlin is here today to discuss the rise of basketball in Japan. Three on three for youth and professional development. We get tactical and technical talking, limiting three-point attempts and getting at the rim, post touches during the always interesting start, sub or sit. Unique and absolute must the most helpful and highest quality coaching content anywhere. These are some of the comments coaches are using to describe their experience with SG Plus. From NBA and NCAA championship coaching staffs to all levels of international and high school basketball, sg Plus is designed to help curious coaches discover, explore and understand the what, why and hows of what the best in the world are doing Through our easily searchable 750 plus video archive on SGTV to our live coaches, social Las Vegas. Sg Plus is the assistant you would hire if your athletic director didn’t already give the stipend to football. And now please enjoy our conversation with coach Tyler Gatlin. Coach, you’ve had a great career at different stops of G League, nba and now internationally in Japan, and we thought it’d be really interesting to start the show with your thoughts on similarities and differences in the Japanese culture with basketball as opposed to where you came from NBA G League circles in the US. As far as style of play, training practice, overall philosophy, we’ll kind of dive in wherever you want to go about what you’re seeing and feeling as a coach over in Japan right now.
Tyler Gatlin: 2:29
Yeah, that’s a great question because Japan has tremendous momentum as a basketball country. The national team performed really well in the World Cup and going back before that, japan hosted the Olympics and have produced some NBA players. There’s really a buzz around the game in the country. So boys and girls growing up I think there’s a lot of three on three that’s taught and that’s played, and then even in the professional ranks three on three is kind of a thing out here. So players kind of learn the game at an early age of just playing together, passing cut, some fundamental things and just system-based concepts and ways to play team basketball. So as far as the practices go, compared to the US it’s getting more and more similar because there’s so much international influence into the game out here and into the US too and certain levels, especially at the professional level and the major college level, there’s a way that the game is taught that I think is almost universal to some degree, that all the players can kind of grasp and pick up on. Last season in Kyoto I worked with Roy Rana, who has a big international pedigree and also NBA pedigree as a coach. So that was kind of how our team functioned. Our practices are on the court, off the court, just the way that our team flowed was more or less patterned after an NBA style management organization practice and the players loved it. Japan has taken parts of the game from all over the world. There’s head coaches from Australia, from New Zealand. Africa has a big influence in the game over here too, at the high school level, at the college level, into the professional ranks. We talked about how the US has an influence and then Europeans play in the league, europeans coach in the league, and same in other parts of Asia. There’s Korean coaches, there’s Korean players and the Philippines, right, it has a big influence in Japan. So it really is a melting pot of basketball cultures and the game has a high ceiling because you can see, at the youth level, it’s amazing. They know how to play over here and a lot of that is just built through good practice habits.
Dan Krikorian: 4:54
I guess narrow in on one thing to start here for me, and that’s what you just mentioned about the youth and training and practice and kind of how players are taught the game, from your time in the G League, where they’re obviously professionals and coming from various college programs, to dealing with youth or seeing the youth in Japan and how they’re being taught. I guess anything you mentioned three on three, but is there anything else similar or differences wise in those two instances?
Tyler Gatlin: 5:23
Kind of similar to Europe. The youth teams are a branch of the professional teams, so it’s going to be your U15 team and your U12 team, pretty much across the board for Japan, which has 54 professional basketball teams. So they’re really going to take some pro concepts into the U15 and the U12. I touched on the three on three, but I think it also extends into like shell defense, whether you’re doing it four on O or four on four, five on five, it doesn’t matter, but some defensive rotation ideas you’re putting into the game at that age and then also just being able to flow into offense, playing a transition of upbeat, a fast-paced style, and being able to flow into drag screens or swing the ball and follow up the screen or get some early offensive type concepts in at that critical development stage of like 12, 13, 14 year old basketball player.
Patrick Carney: 6:19
With building trust or team culture, and with so many people from different backgrounds, how did you think about when you took over the team or came to the team, about building trust and building a culture?
Tyler Gatlin: 6:30
I arrived right after the summer league, straight from Las Vegas to Hachioji, and then eight of our players are here, and I think among them one can speak English, and then our translator’s not here, and we’re going to practice twice every day. So that was let’s have fun, make the drills interactive, make the players communicate with each other and just show them what I’m about as a coach in as few of words as possible, and then, as the form players come in, you’re able to bring them up to speed, as opposed to the other way around. When they came, our team was already formed. That’s where the give and take is going to be. You’re going to come on this side of the fence and do things the way that our team has been doing with our huddles, with the way that we start and end practice, and we try to make the theme of every day and just take two minutes to explain it, and so sometimes that theme is going to be a Japanese word, a Japanese character that has a meaning about trust or endurance or work ethic, like something like that, where we can take a minute or two and also create dialogue. Once you have that type of trust, then the basketball communication becomes more nonverbal. And then the stuff that is verbal.
Patrick Carney: 7:48
It sticks because we’ve heard those words so many times by now you mentioned how you like to start and end practice and incorporating when the foreigners arrive. If you can just elaborate on how you choose to start and end your?
Tyler Gatlin: 8:01
practices. There’s a million ways to do it, whether you take a brief pause just to center yourself, or whether you get right into it with player development just rolls into stretching and getting ready to go. I think I saw how the players were doing it last year during the training camp when I arrived, before our full team and full staff was together. And same this year when I arrived. Just how the players do it. They’re going to make a circle right around the center court, really on the center court, going to be a circle and going to kind of debrief let’s work hard today, we got this and this and this on the agenda, let’s get after it. And then whatever I bring to the table the theme of today’s practice, just a little bit of time, not much. And then hands in and let’s go, and then the same at the end of practice. That’s what they’re going to do form a circle and debrief how the practice go, what are special announcements that we have coming up? And then same we got to work harder, guys, we got to begin this weekend, whatever that is. And then hands in, and then the way that we break this huddle is with high fives, like a snake. Then you go around and you high five, everybody in. It’s cool. I think it’s pretty common across the teams, but then again every team has different influence and different cultures and things that can be unique to them. We say just, instead of team or family or whatever we do, say all we got and then all we need. So I’ll say all we got. Players say all we need. It’s cool to our team. It’s not the first team that’s ever said that, but we’re consistent with it and it works for us and I think the players have come along to really think it’s cool.
Dan Krikorian: 9:46
Why that? Why is it so meaningful?
Tyler Gatlin: 9:48
You know that’s a tireless shout out. With the Stockton Kings We’ve said that one season and I think it has USA basketball spin off before it got to Stockton. It was a big part of our team that year and we got it on sweatshirts and it embodied what we were about. For Hatchi Oji to can embody what we’re about what you have all you got. You know that’s enough, it’s all you need. So whatever we face throughout the course of the season different obstacles that we encounter we already have the solution because that’s all we need. It’s work. You know, for us We’ve been a resilient team. We’ve won games with guys injured. We’ve had some long trips eight, nine hours on the bus or 10 hour travel days and that’s all fun because we get to do what we love and we truly believe what we have is enough.
Dan Krikorian: 10:39
I kind of wanted to ask about motivation and what you’ve learned about what motivates players and maybe, as your style has changed or stayed the same when in the G League these guys are a half step away from the ultimate dream of playing the NBA professionally in Japan a little bit farther away from, I guess, the NBA dream, but still playing professionally Is there anything different as far as your tactics or what motivates players in those places?
Tyler Gatlin: 11:06
Confidence goes so far, I think, in the game of basketball when you can, as a coach, give confidence to these guys to excel at, especially in the areas that they’re good at and things that they do well. You know, if it’s a guy that can shoot, really give them confidence that he’s a good shooter. Your point guards, your attackers, really boost the ball up. How they can play with speed off of the screen, how to set up for the re-screen, how they can get into their reads when they come off. And giving the guys that freedom to make mistakes while they’re growing, while they’re developing, that’s kind of always been my style to just keep getting reps, to get to the next rep, to see it happen fast and make that mental adjustment without taking too much time to second guess or overthink or why did this happen? Or see that there’s energy in the gym always. I mean that’s a very big thing for me just in a team environment that there’s going to be activity, the ball’s bouncing, there’s chatter, people are enjoying what they’re doing and anybody who enters that environment can feel that energy or that electricity that’s going to go out through this team, through this group that’s performing, that’s putting on an entertaining display of what they do, of their profession. That’s what it is. It’s kind of like service to whatever community is supporting you. For us that’s Tachioji, that’s kind of a suburb of Tokyo, but it can just get exponentially bigger as the team and the organization gets bigger. I think, giving that confidence, you learn it. As a young coach I saw some tremendous people doing just that guys that played in the NBA, like Nick Van Eksel, or guys that have made a big name for themselves on player development, like Rico Hines. They’re really going to give confidence to these guys to go out and do it.
Patrick Carney: 12:58
You mentioned at the top the influence of Europe and the US into Japan in terms of player development, but looking at it from how the Japanese culture and looking at the Japanese player when you’re in these player development sessions, how the culture has influenced them and a player and what they need when you’re working with them.
Tyler Gatlin: 13:17
Work ethic is probably the greatest asset that I think Japanese players have instilled in them. It’s just a never quit, never stop, all out work ethic, to go until there’s nothing left. I think that’s the thing that is changing in terms of the player development. You don’t have to run through this wall 100 times, but let’s do it in a way that’s fun, that’s pleasing to your basketball senses as a player, but that’s going to be productive to the game, which is some of the most simple things like catching and shooting, relocating and shooting, finishing at full speed, some passing reads, but finding those blocks that are going to fit that player and serve that player well, and recreating a game environment. So playing with a live defender, that goes a long way, where a player may just shoot for three hours straight without really stopping. Let’s play for 30 minutes against someone who’s trying to stop you from scoring Tomorrow. I think you’re going to be better because you did that and you spent three, four hours just shooting and now you’re exhausted, with no legs and you missed more than you made. So your confidence isn’t there. So that’s it, the guys. They’re going to work very hard and kind of find ways to pull that back and then make them eager to compete, because that’s where you may face some pushback or may face. This is a normal, you know, going against someone like live in an intense environment, you know, as a player development.
Dan Krikorian: 14:50
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Tyler Gatlin: 16:14
Yeah let’s do it.
Dan Krikorian: 16:15
All right, we’re gonna get tactical now with you, and this first one is gonna have to do with creating advantages for bigs. And Just background on this, for fast pattern, I were talking about forehand. I mean so much about creating advantages, you know, for a guard or a wing and Watching some of your film of your team this year, you do have a great big man inside, believe, right now, maybe your leading score or second leading score. So these are three different ways that you can create an advantage on the catch For your big, and so you’ll start the one that would be the most preferred for you, whether it’s a switch or a catch with some space. And so option one Creating advantage for your big is setting like a pin down and then sealing go, pin and seal, so down screen right into a seal. Option two is setting some kind of rip or cross screen or shuffle screen before the post up. And then option three is A roll and seal, so maybe an empty ball screen rolling and maybe kind of a high, low look, and so setting the screen and rolling into the seals will start subversive. Those three options for creating advantage for your big.
Tyler Gatlin: 17:28
Probably gonna go to start, pin and seal and I think that’s specific to our big Maybe. David Dolblos is 41 years old and he’s producing at a high level. He’s played in the top league in Japan for many years and we’re fortunate to have him. He’s taught me a lot. You know where he likes to catch the ball and you know what he’s looking for. But the simplest thing and the simplest plays that we have Involved him in some form or fashion going down towards a basket, pinning somebody and sealing your guys close to the rim as possible that’s gonna be the highest percentage shot and that’s what you want to look for. So you know, in terms of priority, start, pin and seal, you know, from there I think it’s close and player dependent. But I’ll go roll seal, just because we’ve been trying to work on that more. It’s a sub roll seal or even roll rebound, which we’ve been saying a lot, and then rip cross. You know, consider it, but also has some value Subbing for roll seal. You know there’s just more things you can do these days with the variety of pick and roll defenses. You see, and Against Dave he’s done a great job. You know, when he sees a big in the drop kind of doing. You know so many different names for it. But whatever, gore, top screen or you know, clap action or getting in front of that guy, and that’s something that takes some nuance and he does a good job for practice work with the guards to make that read. I think it was a newer concept for one or two of our guys and Now we’re kind of seeing he’s either rolling to seal his man at the rim or he’s rolling to kind of set a screen for you to drive. And we also have a big. That’s the lob threat and you find difficulties, you know, just trying to throw logs even to a lob threat guide. So that’s where that rolled a rebound. You know set a screen and roll very hard to the basket and you can either you know seal this guy underneath the rim and get the offense a rebound, or you can just follow it straight and we’ve gotten a lot of points just off of guard attacking and get the ball off the backboard and then our bigs are gonna roll and clean that up. It’s great having a big and even trying to still play with like five out systems and keeping the force spread and play with the highest, fastest pace that we can and they’re up for it. You know Dave especially loves it. You know he’s gonna rebound and take two dribbles and fire the ball at the sideline, run down and catch it and lay it back in right off the top.
Dan Krikorian: 20:05
You mentioned how he’s taught you so much about post play, where he wants to catch the ball, things like that. Where does someone like him who’s a great post player? Where does he talk about wanting that? And then I guess, how does that help you Design ways to get it to him there? Kind of knowing you know what somebody likes as close to the basket as possible.
Tyler Gatlin: 20:25
I mean, that’s consistently what he’s gonna say. He wants to seal his man at the basket. The post up is a post up, it’s fine, but then they’re gonna come double or triple team or gonna be too much. Just him backing down and becomes his show. When you just start giving in the mid post and go to work, it does. You’re not gonna play at the highest pace at that point. You know you’re kind of limiting what you’re gonna get offensively and he understands that and doesn’t call for it there. You’re very rarely, unless we know we have a matchup that we can exploit Just gonna toss it to him and let him work. But in all of our plays there’s some kind of role seal or pin seal or something that has him sealing right when he wants it, which is a charge circle basically, and then he’s shooting 72% on the season because he gets to the ball there.
Dan Krikorian: 21:17
On top of this too, you mentioned and it’s just interesting, with a good player like him who’s got a ton of experience, then when they do catch it a little bit off or maybe you, like you said a doubles coming, preferences on movement. Outside of that, you know you’re kind of post-automatics and what they want to do there with a good post player.
Tyler Gatlin: 21:36
Learned a lot last year from just how we’re gonna drill once the ball goes into the post, and cutting and different actions, and then you can kind of script it in a way that you want to see it happen. But in the game it kind of becomes its own singular possession on what’s gonna happen when he gets the ball. But usually we’re gonna have a cut from the 45, the ball entry. That’s where it can be. Either Maybe he’s gonna cut through the lane or maybe he’s gonna just screen away, so he has an option again. Uphill DHO’s from the post are great, but that’s collapsed that defense and in those weak side kickouts for these guys that’s their escape. So you have to have, you know, just somebody that’s willing to space, that can shoot, that can read it. Maybe he’s gonna stay in the corner, maybe he’s gonna lift up, but that can become available on the weak side, because that really is the way that these bigs can pick apart Traps and digs and blitzes from their post-ups.
Patrick Carney: 22:35
You mentioned to when discussing rolling seals, that he works with your guards in terms of maybe one to go taught screen or when he’s gonna seal for them to score. What were the reads? He was trying to help with his guards so they can understand when he’s sealing to score, when he’s kind of Gortot sealing for them.
Tyler Gatlin: 22:52
He just has a good feel for that level of the drop and what he can get. You know, can he get open or can he make the guard get open? Everything kind of revolves around that, you know. However, he’s reading it and then some guards are more comfortable shooting pull-ups, jumpers, then trying to get all the way to the basket and finish, and then some of the pick and roll defending bigs. They can kind of sniff out the guys who are a little timid to go into the basket, so they’re gonna be up more aggressive to take away the two. So I think he does a good job to screen, open up and then on that roll reading that big whether he can get in front of it to clear out that space, or whether the guard can More or less bring that big back to him, where then now he’s sealing it of Created advantage. And you know, and it’s cool, and that kind of point guard, big man, dynamic is across the board on every team and bigs are gonna have a way They’d like to talk to their point guards and point guards are gonna have a way they feel about their big man. And you know, you just want to get them in sync because if you’re only focusing on Gortot screens, you know then you’re gonna just trip over each other at some point. You see you’re working on Catch it and get it back. You’re working on defense under rescreen. You’re working on show and short roll. There’s a lot of new, honest, to that relationship and the way you want to play together because in the game you got to do something. You know to counter how you’re being played and having that variety is great, you know, as a big man that can play handoffs, that can play in the short roll, that can play bully ball around the basket, that can sprint into drags, as long as those guards are comfortable with his pace and the way he’s gonna play. We’ve got some incredibly easy scoring opportunities because they worked on all those things before the practices.
Dan Krikorian: 24:44
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Patrick Carney: 25:19
Comm slash slapping glass today, moving along, our last start subset for you has to do with the defensive side of the ball, limiting three pointers. So start subberset. The first one is how you play on ball, your on ball, your pick and roll coverages. The cent one is your off ball screening coverages and how you choose to defend off ball screens. And then the third one is your transition defense, how you set your transition defense.
Tyler Gatlin: 25:48
Yeah, so good one. So, limiting threes, I think you got to start at transition D. That’s where so many are going to come and I think everybody sees when you miss a layup or when your guard hits the deck or you miss a shot close to the basket, how many times does that turn into a three? On the other end, it’s kind of consistent throughout all leagues. So having some kind of emergency close out, if that’s what you’re going for, to limit three point attempts by any means necessary, applying that guys and transitions going to be the start. But that opens up the paint. So we go back and forth a lot on because we give up a lot of threes and transition D. You can see you know everyone’s going to gravitate towards the paint because that’s what we want. But then you’re going to open up, you know, threes and then it’s like are they going to make them or miss them? You know I hope they miss them. But trans D I think it’s a work in progress on how you can limit threes and still be efficient, getting back and protecting the rim, and then I would sub on ball pick and roll typically across the board. If you go under the point, guards going to have the ability to shoot and make threes. So fighting over ball screens or having your big be aggressive to deter the guard from coming off and just letting it fly, You’ve got to be locked in because if the pick and roll D is soft, you’re really going to get punished for it in Japan and Japanese basketball anyway. And if you do go under, the re-screen is an automatic and then that creates a drive and maybe a paint touch. And then now you’re into a kick out and closeouts, and we’ve tried to limit paint touches. I think that also allows more three point attempts by your opponent, which as a group, we’re willing to play that style and give up three point attempts. But really then the closeouts have become the focus. And how can we play, how can we be a good team, trusting that we can close out and at least force a tougher shot than an open water or a wide open one, so really dictating the tempo and that pick and roll Coach Roy Laster used to say the offense must feel attacked. Just like you want to attack defenses, the offense must also feel attacked. It’s a really good basketball situation where you can attack at offenses with your pick and roll defense.
Patrick Carney: 28:07
I’d like to start with your start with how you’re thinking about transition defense and, like you said, how to protect the rim but not give up freeze. How is your offensive rebounding philosophy maybe influencing your transition defense in terms of have you found maybe sending more is better or sending less and getting more people back? Where do you fall in offensive rebounding?
Tyler Gatlin: 28:29
I think the more possessions, the better that you can generate and really going to encourage guys to go get the ball. If it’s there for you, if you can do it, go get it. We work on getting back through the elbows and doing some different things. Give some players some ideas and some reads on how and when to go for the offensive board, but then screening back. Obviously that’s the most important thing anybody can do, but stopping the ball and when and where to stop the ball, that requires a lot of wiggle room. I think and thought as a coach, you want to just press the ball as soon as they get it and whoever has it, or do we need to get back first and close off the pain and then come out and stop the ball, or do we need to do a mix of both, which is then going to be really challenging who goes where and when? So certainly we’re going to emphasize it going into almost any game, because teams like to run out here, and we’re going to practice it until the guys are comfortable with how we get back and where some of our key points, like our marks of where we need to go on the court, would be in a transition scenario. And then again, can we give an extra, a multiple effort, an extra closeout, an extra stunt, make them pass it one more time and then maybe they put the brakes on and we can go out and pass court?
Patrick Carney: 29:51
for possession. You also mentioned that right now with your team you’re kind of emphasis on limiting paint touches. So in terms of now, if we say limiting paint touches, what are the keys that you emphasize with your team?
Tyler Gatlin: 30:04
Whether to switch on the screen, switch the ball screen with our big or with our four man, or are we going to stay with the big guy? And then we’ve worked on it a lot. We call it next. I’m not sure what the real term is. I’ve seen teams kind of doing it now is helping off the corner and stopping the guy from getting in the paint, and then switching on to the corner with the on ball defender. And you know you can do it from the nail. Basically, if someone gets a blown by, you know the help defender is going to be there for the reason to not let him get into the paint. And we’ve done pretty good as a team committing to it and then flying off that ball handler to get to the corner and close out. And again, teams make some. You know, even if you go as fast as you can and try to close out, they make shots. But we’ve taken away a good amount of paint points by executing that coverage and then from the nail. I think has been really great because, more than anything, protecting teams from just driving it through the nail I think is critical for defensive success and having a defender there means he’s leaving somebody. So we got to be able to rotate or fly around if he’s there to keep a guy from getting into the paint. So a lot goes into it. The simplest thing is just have great on-ball defenders that don’t get beat, and then nobody ever touches the paint.
Patrick Carney: 31:28
but it’s harder to do than they have and when working with your guys on these necks or these lateral helps and these rotations you mentioned, you’ll switch with your fours, but then is your five man. Are you dropping him? Where is his coverage and what’s his depth?
Tyler Gatlin: 31:43
of drop, so he’s surprisingly very agile. And then our other big is most athletic player in the league, so both of them are going to be at the level of screen and from there quickly retreat and get back to a big who’s a good roller. Not hedge, but deter the guard, shock the ball for a second and then get back the switching with the five. It can happen especially late in the possession. Just switch and be aggressive and pressure the ball and then the rest of the team is going to be in a tighter shell. But picking role defense in Japan is especially in the B1, in the top league. That’s the most important attribute, I think, of an import player is how they play pick and roll defense. So that drop, being able to drop, but initially being up, that’s what the great ones do, because they’re up and then they can use their length and their size and just their savvy to shock that ball handler who are very dynamic. They know how to play pick and roll and get shots up. So you got to pay attention. But then you have a million dollar player rolling or popping that you’ve got to get back in guard. So for us it’s kind of the same idea Just shock the ball, be aggressive, be at the level of these screens. Typically we’re going to push it to the sideline. So if they flip it to the step up, you’re still up there at that level. Taking away, taking that car very uncomfortable, but then it’s hard. You have to stunt as a defense. You have to have guys paying attention to whoever this screener is, because the screener is usually going to be the best player on the court, so that guy’s a problem. You got to guard him with off ball defenders just as well as with your quote unquote best player. Who’s your big man as well.
Patrick Carney: 33:32
How are you working on stunts so they’re effective and that it’s not a stunt where you just give up a direct line pass for a shot but you’re impacting the ball able to recover, when you’re not, in these situations, going to give the next?
Tyler Gatlin: 33:44
Being at the nail early or being in position early to deter that past even for a half a second, because just your presence is there Making the offense want to skip it to your man. Be that much in help that they think he’s open more than the guy who’s popping and then still kind of knowing which the players do a tremendous job of knowing the personnel throughout the league. It was certainly better than me and I’m watching as much as I can and catching up and learning these guys tendencies and who’s a good player. But they know these guys if they can shoot, if they can’t shoot and so stunning and getting back or fully rotating a communication amongst the team that they do really well, just because they know they’ve got to pay attention to this guy either popping to the three short rolling or dynamically going to the basket to punish you. Everyone’s focused on that guy.
Dan Krikorian: 34:41
Tyler, you’re off the start subset hot seat. We’ve got one last question to close the show before we do again. Thanks for coming on. It was awesome to hear a lot more about where you’re at and go deeper on these things tactically as well. So thank you again, oh guys.
Tyler Gatlin: 34:56
it’s one experience. When you hear slap in glass, it’s like cream of the crop. I really appreciate it. You guys are awesome, Thank you.
Dan Krikorian: 35:04
Coach. We asked the same question to end the show to all our guests and question is what’s the best investment that you’ve made in your career as a coach?
Tyler Gatlin: 35:12
Investing in myself in the off season I think has been the best. My passion international basketball. So finding the event that you want to go to making it happen to see European basketball and see a EuroLeague Final Four or watch the World Cup, euroleague coaching seminar, whatever it is that can just give you more passion and more knowledge and more love for the game. That as a coach, if you’re able to invest in yourself and experience those things, then coming down later along in the journey you know those are the unforgettable experiences and what kind of? Maybe give the confidence to get outside of the US basketball scene and find some success in Korea and Japan. You know, seeing the game Euroglobal is awesome.
Dan Krikorian: 36:08
Alright, pat. Hey, always fun to have just a different perspective on the show. You know, with Coach Gatlin, it’s been great connecting with him and someone that has a great amount of experience here in the US and then to take that over to Japan, which, as we know, is just an exploding basketball market and he spoke to that. We’ll get into that in a second, but it was great to just get a different viewpoint on the podcast today.
Patrick Carney: 36:34
So we’ve talked a lot about Japan’s really growing, trying to get more coaches who are over there on the ground coaching there, and so it was a fun conversation we were looking for and I think was a no-brainer. As we prepared all the ideas we could talk about, it just kind of kept coming back to just communication, training, practice, but all through the lens of Japan and the league we’re still learning about, but also with the culture, influences, is different than Western Europe and the States. So, like I said, it was a no-brainer. Let’s start there and let’s ask him what he’s noticed and how he coaches over there.
Dan Krikorian: 37:11
Yeah, and I think, like you just mentioned, when we were discussing what to get into with him talking to him off air over the last couple of weeks as we prepped for this, he mentioned just discussing a little bit about the culture and the exploding nature of the sport over there. What he spoke well on and what is interesting to hear is always about development, youth skills, all those things and hearing his thoughts on how they try to teach that. Coming up in Japan, he mentioned really a team game three on three, learn how to play with each other, that it is a team sport from the beginning and that that’s like just a fabric of the culture, I agree.
Patrick Carney: 37:51
And he mentioned, like he said, the three on three and that’s something I have noticed. The three on three game and you know these tournaments and these professional three on three is very popular in Asia. In Europe it’s growing as well. But yeah, it was interesting to hear that the influence that had on the popularity of that game, influencing the youth, and I think it he raised a good point and he raised it too and I know it’s what we kind of grew up on. And just yet, playing through three on three, you know, developing through team tactics or a team environment, and I know there’s a lot of conversations we’ve been having lately that practicing in more of a team environment helps drive skill.
Dan Krikorian: 38:31
I agree with you and I think you and I, just on a quick tangent, been talking, studying, interviewing coaches quite a bit on skill and how it develops, and going back to Coach Gatlin and that skill develops so much in and around other people, it’s also where I’ll just quickly insert my myths with Coach Gatlin Probably could have talked about three on three and skill development and four on four. He mentioned as well for a lot longer. It’d be interesting to pick his brain if there’s any differences in practice, amount of time or starting it and how he implements it in Japan right now versus what he saw in the G League. And so I just all throw in a quick miss for me there. I could have talked to him more about that personally. Let’s flip over to start subset, where we were excited to ask him about both of these. These are from our own team’s perspective, on our mind and then also in preparation for Coach Gatlin. He mentioned he’s got a great center that really knows how to play the game and has been playing the game for, I think he said, 20 years, 20 plus years, and so let’s start with the creating advantages for bigs, and when you got a post, you want to catch it a lot to operate. How do you think about doing that rather than just having them jog down to the block and chucking it in there?
Patrick Carney: 39:46
Yeah, this was a fun conversation on learning from your players. I know we’ve talked about it a lot but I think this specific example with one of his veteran players and what he likes in the post, and he himself has kind of learned and adjusted his offense to basically what his post player wants. As he said, he wants it as close to the basket as possible, but a good understanding that, yeah, the further out I get it, the harder to score. Intuitively that makes sense, but then there’s more opportunities to double, triple. You know then, with the pins, the type of screens I think you mentioned, like zipper screens or these gut screens where they can just seal when he’s right at the room.
Dan Krikorian: 40:22
So types of screen they consider to get him close seals at the room with the art of post play is Really interesting because I think a lot of these, as we were talking about them and then even on air, I was thinking so much about leverage and how a post player that understands how to seal like he mentioned, the pin and seal is probably really Nice because first of all, they visually can usually see the defender when, like a rip screen or cross screen sometimes, that defenders ended up being behind you so you can’t quite feel them because they’re coming from behind, potentially where in a pin you can kind of see where you’re gonna get leverage or where you’re gonna seal because they’re in front of you for the most part. And then also you know All these have to do with a great post player can seal someone that doesn’t have their bearings Defensively. So when you’re pinning down, like he mentioned, that big is probably kind of hedging or helping on a curl or that screen coming off, so they’re not in a good position. When you’re big they will then turn and get into them and get that low pain touch. And so I was just thinking a lot about these as he was talking how it is great when you have a big that understands how to get positioning and Then figuring out what you want to run and teach them how to get it, so that way when they do touch it it’s as close to the basket as possible. We haven’t had this coach on the podcast. Love to get coach Hurley from Yukon on, because last year when they won the NCAA tournament they were fantastic at getting Sonogo. They’re big. I’ve touched right at the basket and so much of their stuff was a pin in a seal or a high low on a seal or screen the seal and they were getting them that thing right at the basket. We can turn, lay it up or dunk it and, different than just having a post that can catch it off the block, turn in phase front split cuts, which we got into. I found there was a lot of interesting kind of nuances in that part of the conversation.
Patrick Carney: 42:16
I often wonder too, with ceiling, if it’s like an intuitive skill. Of course you can teach it. I’m not saying it’s impossible to teach, but yeah, how much is just like the innate understanding angles, and I think some of the high-end players, you see, it just seems to be so intuitive to them. I think a lot too with the intuitive nature has to do with anticipation. I think what the bigs who do it well, they can anticipate maybe the skip pass or they can when those space is gonna open up and then get the timing right of like, okay, I can start working now work driving my guy up and get the seal where I think maybe the guys who are less intuitive, it has to be set, design and knowing like where the ball specifically going so they can get their timing locked in, kind of what my you know, never having played the position or really done a seal on my life has taught me.
Dan Krikorian: 43:04
Yeah, it looks scary down there. Yeah, not for me, no reason to go down there. Flipping over to the limiting threes and you and I have been in this discussion Ourselves with coaches and just defenses that limit three point attempts. You know these were three areas of pick and roll coverages, the off-ball screens, in the transition that we both thought. You know, if you’re trying to limit threes, these three have ramifications and I think was interesting. One was his start in transition and then we also got into some nuances, though, of him talking about they gave up more threes because they had a no paint touch mentality, which you extrapolate that out means you’re probably giving more help and gaps, which means you’re giving up maybe that extra pass to the corner and then you’re closing out and along that note, and he imposed the same question, I guess, or what he’s thinking a lot about with transition defenses, like how do you protect the ram or shrink in but also Not give up?
Patrick Carney: 43:59
threes that’s what we also talk about, I know, in our conversations. How many offensive people are you sending the board and tagging up? And then, yeah, how do you run back, you know, and shrinking in or loading up at the nail, but, as we’ve talked with coach Hardy, are they now exploiting that to get flair?
Dan Krikorian: 44:16
threes yeah, I think his sub Interesting talk about pick and roll coverages and you know, especially in the international game, nba higher levels, where the pick and roll Just dominates almost every possession, and how much time you spend on what you’re doing in that coverage and then how it just Kind of filters down from there as far as what are your help responsibilities, what are your gap responsibilities, what are your rotations, what are your closeouts? Because if you’re hedging, short hedging, dropping Whatever it is you’re doing, obviously then we talked with coach Marco Brach about this a lot the aggressiveness on the ball in the pick and roll Is going to influence what everybody else is doing and so here with limiting threes, his sub was pick and roll coverages. So he kind of talked a little bit about trying to limit the three of the ball handler. I think there’s also limiting the three of like the whole team when if you’re more in a drop or switch, you’re able to stay with your assignments everywhere else and hopefully not give it Add up last point, building off your reference to coach for auction how you think about the three-man rotation or your shell coverage behind a pick and roll?
Patrick Carney: 45:21
We had the conversation with coach Gatlin then about why they’re giving that next or that lateral help because, again, their Philosophy they want to limit paint touches. You know so. You know we talked about big drop depth, but that’s why then they’re gonna be aggressive in those stunt lines To keep the ball out of the paint. How that’s now influencing their tags and their off-ball coverages.
Dan Krikorian: 45:45
Yeah, I mentioned a couple of things, miss wise from my end. Was there anything else from your end we didn’t get to?
Patrick Carney: 45:50
He mentioned emergency closeouts when talking about his transition defense and I mean I can always just keep going further on closeouts, especially to the when we were talking about limiting threes, and again just close out philosophy tied to your overall defensive philosophy. I can go great lengths in that conversation for sure.
Dan Krikorian: 46:10
Well, once again, we thank coach Gatlin for coming on and and wish him the best of luck the rest of the way. After nothing else, we’ll start wrapping this up. That’s good. Thanks, everybody for listening. We’ll see you next time.