Miles Simon on Gut Instincts, Building the Right Skills, and Defending Off-Ball Screens {South Bay Lakers}

Inside the Episode

We kicked off the month of June with a fantastic interview from South Bay Lakers Head Coach, Miles Simon! Coach Simon has enjoyed success at multiple levels of the sport (including as a player), and he detailed his thoughts on:

• Building “Player Development” Programs as a Head Coach: We’ve had some great conversations so far this year about player development and the different strategies coaches use, and Coach Simon adds another great layer to that. He has experience as both a PD Coach for the LA Lakers, as well as now putting together plans for players of the South Bay Lakers as their Head Coach. Great nuggets throughout about building skills, decisions, and putting players in position to succeed. 
• “Gut Instincts” as a Coach: Coach Simon was a heck of a player (1997 NCAA Champion with Arizona), and was always lauded for his incredible on-court IQ and instincts. During “Start, Sub, or Sit!?” we hear his thoughts on developing and nurturing that side of himself as a Head Coach and how it’s one of the most important skills a coach can develop. 
• Defending Off-Ball Screens: Wondering how to guard curls, flares, splits, etc.? Coach Simon details his thoughts on defending off-ball screens during “Start, Sub, or Sit?!” as well.

Chapters

0:00 Player Development and Coaching Strategies

4:26 Player Development in the NBA

14:26 Winning Culture and Honest Player Development

20:33 Coaching Relationships and Trust

30:29 Defensive Strategy for Transition Drags

41:44 Best Investment?

48:59 SG Wrap Up

Transcript

Dan Krikorian: Miles, thank you very much for making the time to talk to us today. We’re really excited to jump into a bunch of stuff with you. 

Miles Simon: Hey, glad to be here. I really appreciate you guys having me. 

Dan : I like to jump in with this… Something that you’ve done really well over the course of your career is developing players, bringing them from whatever level they’re at to a higher level, and you’ve done it in multiple spots, and we wanted to just dive in on how you think about coming up with player development plans that make sense for that player, for that team, for that specific season. And I guess the jumping off point of what you and the staff think about and look at when you’re building those things up Player development. 

Miles Simon: I think it can go a couple different ways And I’ve done it a couple different ways. So like when I first started doing player development man, it’s probably 14 or 15 years ago now and like 0809. And I’m working with guys like Landry Field and Michael Roll and Travis and David, where it wasn’t developed around their team, it was developed around just like getting their individual skill better because I wasn’t the coach of their team, wherever they’re playing college, heading into the pros, whatever it might be. In that sense, when I was taking like those guys let’s take like Landry Fields for example I had him going into his pre draft, you know, really just trying to work on his overall like. So think about his ball handling because he’s going to be a two guard, probably an NBA, how he can better break guys down and tighten up his handle, really working on and developing his more consistent three point shot, like in college, at Stanford he was an okay shooter but that was kind of the knock on him of why he might not get drafted. They didn’t think he’d be maybe a capable NBA three point shooter. So for that time, over a couple of years span, he obviously gets drafted, but just developing his individual skill every day, starting with the ball handling, working on his finishing which he already had like a really good skill set, but just enhancing some things he could do at the NBA level finishing wise and then dialing in on his three point shooting each and every day. That was the biggest difference maker for him on him getting drafted. That was one way about like skill development is just concentrating on the overall skill, but it wasn’t pertaining to necessarily a team, it was just all about his individual. 

Miles Simon: But now that I’ve been in the NBA, like the past six years with the Lakers, to me my mindset kind of changes a little bit. So, like when I was with Alex Cruz so, and Kyle Kuzma and Josh Hart and some of these other guys with the Lakers, my mindset changed somewhat. Now, still obviously working on the individual skill development, the ball handling, the shooting, but I would almost cater or tailor it a little bit to more where their shots might be coming from and what type of shots they were getting in games, even though, like Alex Crusoe, is a point guard, slash, combo guard, he might not be getting as many pick and roll shots when you’re playing with LeBron, because LeBron is going to be handling the pick and roll a lot, so like a lot of spot up shots or a lot of go and catches, a lot of finishes at the rim. For AC Kuz we’re trying to develop into maybe more of an all around player that you see for the Wizards now. 

Miles Simon: But his role playing with LeBron his last three seasons same thing. He played a little bit more off the ball So like you worked on like cuts, moving without the ball, a little bit more Obviously his spot of three point shooting stuff that he was going to see in the game. So it’s been kind of twofold the way I attack player development, depending on the player and the situation. 

Dan : Miles. What’s changed or you know maybe your mindset as far as when you were a player, and especially like when you were coming out of college going pro how player development has maybe changed, or how you look at it differently, is when you were going through the process yourself, like how people worked you out, how you got better, versus how maybe you look at doing it now. 

Miles Simon: Yeah, it’s way different because I’m old, i was like 20, man 25 years ago. I think player development at that time, individual player development was just kind of starting or blossoming. And I had a guy when I was coming out for pre draft his name was Howard Avery, you know he worked on the ball handling the shooting. He changed my shot a little bit because in college I shot with my left hand, my thumb was on the ball and it gave it like a weird spin at times. So he was able to like adjust that to me around that time era. 

Miles Simon: So up until like mid to like late nineties. I just played a lot. There wasn’t a huge emphasis on all these finishes that you had to have or playing pick and roll or stuff like that. Like I just went and played and that was like my player development. That’s how I got better, just competing all the time. So I think we’ve lost over time a little bit of that. There’s nothing wrong with the player development. But guys, to me you have to go apply it to games and see like if that ball handling works or like you can make adjustments or you can make game speed shots. I think there’s different aspects that have changed over time, and I think it’s been for the better, because if you look at the skill level of these guys in NBA and you’re watching the NBA playoffs right now, man, is it some high skill level out there, from seven foot bigs, you know, like Jokic and Embiid, to the things that Devon Booker is doing on a nightly basis. 

Pat: Miles to piggyback and off of that point, you’re going to try to develop the skill, but now applying it and bringing it to the conceptual element of it. As a coach, you know with the South Bay Lakers this year, how did you think about also improving the guys on a conceptual level? 

Miles Simon: So I have really great assistant coaches. We talk about this during the offseason. For the South Bay Lakers we don’t really get our team until like the day before training camp. So we know who the players are, but we don’t necessarily have our hands on them like over the summertime, because in the G-league your roster has great fluctuation every year. So once we start to get our hands on them in practice, we try to do everything within the realm of the team. 

Miles Simon: For the most part when we’re doing the player development the type of shots they’re going to get. 

Miles Simon: If a guy’s going to be a pick and roll player, he’s going to be an off-ball player. We work on those things almost daily. And then if we really want to dive into the individual stuff, where we get to let them feel good about their game, we have what’s called player development days. So it’s like if we have two or three days mostly probably like three days in between games, instead of having a full practice, i’ll just tell the guys hey, tomorrow’s a PDB day, come in, get our individual working. You’re just going to be with your coach that day. We’re going to work on ball handling, finishes, our passing, all our shooting within just individual development, not within like what the team scheme would be, and the guys really enjoy that. Because in the G-league you always want to feel like you used to be called the developmental league, right, the D-league. You always want to feel like you’re getting better and progressing towards what you know in the NBA and you’re not having to do team stuff all the time And the guys we’ve found they’ve really, really enjoyed that. 

Pat: And Miles the days when you are doing the team stuff. Is it small breakdowns, three on three, or are you still repping against, maybe the coaches, non-live, non-contact, but just the things, the shots they’re going to get? 

Miles Simon: Yeah, it’s mostly it’ll be like two on two or three on three And then usually against the coaches on those days just working on the passing, the running, the reads. 

Miles Simon: They might see like if they’re running like step up, pick and roll And we know the team is like a low man’s always going to come in, like working on that corner, skip passes, like re-driving the basketball and relocating to the weak side, stuff that we would do within our offense. We usually play a four out four around one offensive scheme, for the most part, depending on how our roster looks, working on that type of stuff in two on two or three on three so they can start making the reads. And that now it’s not all about just like getting the shot every time. Okay, now you got to read the defender. If the nail help is heavy and you’re driving to the middle, then we give we call it early easy’s where you just got to hit that slot guy and then he’s making the next decision, whether it’s drive, pass or shoot, always trying to give them the most game like scenarios as we can as coaches. 

Dan : Miles when you’re trying to figure out if a player is growing or not or if they’re really developing. are there any metrics or any ways that you and the staff use to say, okay, like we’re working on this for a month or two or whatever, and here’s where we’re actually seeing the growth with these players, or is there a way for the player to see the growth other than maybe just the feel of the whole thing? 

Miles Simon: I think there’s a couple of ways. One part of what I haven’t spoken about is the film work. The film lets you see everything, the good and the bad, and I’m always on. my coaches show it all. There’s no substitute for that, because then they can really see and grow like okay, i have been getting to the rim, then I haven’t been finishing, i only really drive left. I got to work on being a little more versatile, driving right. I’m missing these reads when the big man is rolling and I’m speaking in guards term right now, but the big man’s rolling and I’m not throwing it up to him at the rim, even though his guy has committed to me. 

Miles Simon: And then there’s analytical data. We look at where you’re taking your shots. If you’re taking too many contested mid-range shots, like you know, we have to eliminate those. I’d rather have you just move the ball on to the next guy. We use all that stuff even in the G-League. Obviously, in the NBA they definitely do. Half our team was probably rookies this year. showing them their shot type, their play, makes what they’re doing how they’re doing defensively. So, with the film work and the analytics so kind of a combination of both. 

Pat: Miles with the young guys and maybe when you see they start to stagnate like they’re plateauing and you’re showing the film but they can’t make the read or they’re struggling to make the read How do you break through that stagnation? or are there characteristics you see from the player that are impeding their ability to take that next step? 

Miles Simon: It’s hard because there’s some guys that they can’t get it or they can’t see it, and I’m okay with that. I understand who can and who can’t, but my job and our staff’s job is to keep teaching it to them And hopefully it’s just small steps or breakthroughs. We had seen it with one of our players this year. He was using pick and roll and he just wasn’t making the pass, like he was just only seeing the shot and he was not seeing the reads on the passes to the weak side or the drop offs to the big. And it was a process and you kept showing him, showing them, and then, like one game, it was like starting to click for him And he was making some of these reads that we’ve been asking him to make, because it’s like other teams, they watch the film too, so they know, hey, when Pat drives to the rim, he’s only going to shoot. So like, go and just vertical on, make it tough for him. He doesn’t make the drop off pass. So telling him when, amongst other guys, these little things, you just have to keep coaching them and not like give up on them. 

Miles Simon: Now are there guys that it’s just not going to happen for, yes, 100%, they can’t see it Not everyone can see the game at a high level. You got to try to highlight what they can do and what they’re good at and then put your players in the best position to succeed, so, like if they’re in these situations where they’re continually not able to make the right reads maybe not trying to put them in those positions keep the things in their wheelhouse, like if they’re not a great decision maker okay, i got to make it easier on them. Try as best as possible to keep the ball in my best decision makers hands so that they’re the finishers to the place by a cut or receiving, you know, open, three point shot or like straight line drives to the rim where they can just, you know, finish. So you’re also, you know, fighting for just trying to put the players in the best chance to succeed, because then that also, in turn, is going to give your team a better chance to succeed, because there might be less mistakes out there on the floor. 

Dan : Miles in your position right now in the G League and I know like this is across all different levels, but just your job in defining reality for players and you’re going to have guys that are going to make the league and go up. You’re going to have guys that are two way back and forth and then I’m sure you know the majority are not going to get there in their aspirations. Obviously are, but you still have to coach that team. You still have to put them to play together. You still have to coach them, like we’ve been talking about. What have you learned over the last few seasons of just how to coach all the different levels of reality that these players are coming across? 

Miles Simon: One thing I do is I tell the truth. It doesn’t matter if you’re two way, if you’re an assignment player, you’re just a G League player. I tell you the truth about what I see individually and as a team. I believe the players appreciate that. They want to know the truth because for our league, if you don’t tell them that they need to do this, this and this, you’re really doing them a disservice. And I mean I tell you, you got to be a better defender. You can’t die on screens Like. You got to fight hard each and every time, every possession, no plays off. 

Miles Simon: I’ve had a guy on my team. He’s a very good on ball defender. He’s menace on the ball but off the ball gets lost all the time. And I said I use the example because we’re lucky that we’re in the same building as the Lakers And so I can use this example a lot. That’s what I said. 

Miles Simon: If you want to go one court over, from the South Bay court to the Lakers court, you can’t mess up these rotations on the backside because LeBron James gonna be looking at you crazy Because he knows where you’re supposed to be on the court and you didn’t get there to rotate to a corner three-point shooter, like it’s unacceptable. 

Miles Simon: Or if you’re driving to the paint and three guys collapse on you and dudes are wide open on the weak side And you’re not throwing them the ball, you’re gonna get pulled out of the game. You’re taking these like bad shots. Like I try to be as open and honest as possible about where they are, what they need to do better, but also in giving them a lot of praise when they do do the right things and tell them like hey, this is a strength of yours, keep it going. If you can make corner Three is at a high level in the NBA and then defend on the other end, like that can be a role for you. So I tell them the truth, i show it to him on film because usually backs it up Individually and team-wise. I think everybody being on the same page and there’s no guessing, that helps everyone. 

Pat: Miles, how do you think about establishing an atmosphere with your program? You know, based on the conversation We just had with all players with different aspirations and doing the South Bay Lakers more as maybe a stepping stone rather than like a career? 

Miles Simon: The first thing I established when our team meets for the first time is that the Lakers Organization we are about winning. That is the number one goal. You look in our practice facility all the championship banners, the championship Trophies are hanging and then the trophies are lined up along genie bus’s wall or a window sill and that Overlooks the practice courts. I said that’s the number one thing when you’re wearing a Lakers uniform And I said that doesn’t change because when you guys want to go to the NBA, the goal of every team is Is ultimately to win. 

Miles Simon: And the way that we win, we win as a group. We’re gonna help you get better individually and work on your games and all that’s gonna come with time. But the number one thing is that we want to win. So we established that right away, the very first meeting before we ever practice. So if you’re not really about like the team and winning, then you’re gonna stand out like a sore thumb in our group, because I don’t let really anything slide by. So like, you got to come in with the right mentality and mindset and That stuff is knocked out early. And yeah, of course, like the assignment guys, there’s guys that come down that are assignment guys, assignment guys usually their draft picks, you know come down and they think it might be just their time to like go for theirs. But when they come down to my group and they see like how we practice, how hard we play, how together we play, how connected we are, they fall right into line. 

Dan : Well, as maybe if we could double down on some of that stuff real fast And you mentioned, like you’re not gonna let stuff slide, the players showing selfish tendencies or lazy or whatever the things are, i guess what would be the intervention steps for you to get that player on the same page. 

Miles Simon: I Let them know that when they’re not doing things the right way what a bad shots, not playing defense, and this is practice or games It’s addressed immediately. There’s no like waiting until the game is over or practice is over. No, when you’re taking like bad, contested shots, not sharing the ball, not hustling back on defense and practice, the whistles blown, it’s addressed, we move on to the next thing. I don’t wait, i don’t hold back on a lot of things. A big piece for me as Accountability. You know, when you hold guys accountable then the team looks like okay, well, he’s holding the best players accountable every single day, every single time. 

Miles Simon: It goes a long way and it starts with even like when it’s film time And when we say like meeting in the film room at 11 o’clock, i turn the film on right at 11 o’clock, it’s never 1101. It’s never 11 and my 30 seconds 11 o’clock. We’re starting. Or the bus is leaving from the hotel at 9 am For shoot around got to be on the bus or you’re gonna get left. Those just carry over into like practices and games, those little type things about team, and it’s really helped our group the last two years to have a lot of success. 

Dan : My last question on this subject is kind of tying the two things that we’ve been talking about together, which is the player development and the culture that you try to establish, and I guess how the player development, how working with the players game and their skill set can help Also build your culture like them feeling like you’re invested in them and their success, and how you view that overall program as Helping what you want to do overall as a team. 

Miles Simon: Well, i think one thing that I do and we do as our staff We build a lot of sweat equity with our guys. When we’re doing the player development We’re not just passing the ball and Pat can probably attest to this, he’s worked with me enough We built sweat equity. The guys I’m not just passing and rebound and like I’m playing defense, i’m trying to get stops at times on guys Doing everything I can to just help the guys get better. And I think they see that and appreciate that that, like we really do invest in them and Care about their growth and like how much that they want to get better and then also, you know, achieve their goals of getting to the NBA. But I think that’s a big part of it. And then also our staff has done a really good job And I really have to credit my assistant coaches. 

Miles Simon: I do this also, but it’s a little bit different as the head coach. But we get to know our players, like we spend time with them off the quarter, getting to know like what they like what they do. We sit down, you know, have meals with them on the road, so it’s not just a show up at practice, coach them and then that’s it know their families if they got wives or kids. They really appreciate just like you asking like about these little things, because they’re not just basketball players. They got stuff going on outside of that gym every day to real-life stuff and the more you’re connected with them, the harder that they’ll play for you. 

Pat: You just mentioned, as the head coach, is a little bit different in terms of how you build relationships with your players. Is it only because, at the end of the day, you make the tougher decisions about their playing time? You know their role? there’s a threshold now that you’re the head coach and being compared to when you’re an assistant. 

Miles Simon: I think there is a little bit of a line. I’m close with quite a few of the players, but sometimes I almost feel if you get really close as the head coach And then you have to make some tough decisions on guys, it makes your decisions a lot harder, whether it’s playing time or if you have to, like, cut someone from the roster, because those are all decisions that follow me a lot, and so I just try to make sure I’m close enough and I know what’s going on with these guys and we spend time Or we get to know each other because I like them. They know that I have a life and like my family and my kids and everything too. It is sometimes hard between like the friendship and then the basketball side of things can get a little bit unclear at times. 

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Dan : We want to move on to a segment on the show that we call start, sub or sit. For those maybe listening for the first time, we’re gonna give you three options ask you to start one, sub one and sit one, and then we’ll discuss your answers from there. So, coaches, first one has to do with underrated coaching skills, and these are kind of like more soft skills We’re going to talk about. So these are. Your start. Here would be the one that you think is, you know, really highly valuable that coaches would need to. You know, progress in their career, and these are three different things that when we’re talking about dealing with your staff, your players, management, things like that. So the first option is a sense of humor. The second option is great gut instincts, whether that’s tactically, whether that’s with players. The third option is Social IQ, or just an awareness ability to read the room. So start, sub or sit to start being the most important of these skills. 

Miles Simon: The start is, i believe, said gut instinct. Yeah, that’s a start. Sub would be the ability to read the room, and then the sit would be sense of humor. 

Dan : Okay, i love to just dive in and ask you about your start and the gut instinct piece of being a coach and how you’ve learned to operate, trusting your gut on all the decisions that you have to make as a head coach. 

Miles Simon: I thought I was always a good player that had great feel for the game. You know what’s going on on the floor and have a feel for my teammates and what was needed at Certain times of the game. Take, for instance, in the national semi-finals in college. I still remember this very clearly. We were down 15 to 4 to North Carolina in the national semi-finals. We like couldn’t make a shot, couldn’t get a shot, and all as I did was as the leader of the team. I just said give me the ball. And like just trying to reel our team and give them like confidence. I think I scored a couple buckets and it changed the momentum of the game early in the game. 

Miles Simon: But you got to have a feel. Sometimes it’s just, you know, for rotations, subbing a guy in if he’s, you know, hot or not, or like a feel, hey, tonight might not be a matchup for a certain player to play, but the next game could be. And then it’s also a feel for how a guy is Performing, you know if he’s showing up game to game, a feel for like how he’s been practicing. And then even like a feel for your staff on, like most of your staff, what’s going on with them? does one of your staff’s energy seem off? Do you need to sit with them and ask, like you know, is there something going on? anything I can help you with? so just having gut instincts on a few things is just a highly valuable skill and coaching I. 

Pat: Love the. I mean gut instinct but the word feel and you mentioned when you were a player. You had a good feel and if we put kind of the player development hat back on, can you develop like feel? I think we heard a lot like I guys a good feel for the game. So can you develop feel in a player? 

Miles Simon: I don’t know that you can. I think guys kind of have that in them already. They know what’s going on, they know what to do, they can see the game, they can feel the game, they can feel the rhythm of the game. I think you can just develop them to help them Maybe try to see things a little bit better and more clear. But those guys that have that innate ability to make guys better, make their teams better, raise their level, play. I think that’s something that’s just different and guys usually have that for a very long time, from when they’re young. My son plays youth basketball. When I watch the games I can see certain kids that have a great feel and others that don’t. I don’t know that. The ones that don’t, whatever get it. They can get it maybe to a little smaller degree because they’re just gonna play so much basketball, but it’s hard to develop that higher level. 

Pat: If you look back at your career outside of basketball, was there anything that you think attributed to your feel? 

Miles Simon: I think my dad just put me around the game a lot. I was always at the gym with him, whether he was refing or coaching or playing. I was just on the floor a lot. But I think it was something that was just passed down and, like you know, for whatever reason, god bless me that I could see the game and know the game at a pretty high level. 

Dan : Maaza, i’d love to stay with the gut instinct. As a coach now. I think you know, obviously, at the NBA level there’s so many metrics, so many stats. There’s all this information you can get, there’s all the film you can get, but then there’s this other level of just coaching feel Understanding your players, timeouts, situations when you need to inflect your voice, all these things that are kind of not on paper, not on film, and maybe advice or things that you’ve learned for younger coaches, trying to develop these skills of how to get that as a coach now too, as well as a player like you said, with experience I’m being a head coach I’ve learned a lot of things, a lot about myself too. 

Miles Simon: One thing about the feel. So like I go into every game with a plan for like my rotations, so I have a little like card in my pocket and I go in with K, i’m gonna sub Pat out first and now I’m gonna bring him back. He’s gonna be my first sub at like seven minute mark and then I’m gonna bring him back to finish the quarter, start the second, etc, etc. What I’ve learned if Pat has made like his first three shots, i’m not taking Pat out, i’m gonna let Pat roll a little bit longer and then I might just take somebody out or I let the group roll in general So they can’t roll anymore. 

Miles Simon: So just learning things like that, like you don’t have to be super predictable in everything that you do I learned like I had some players very good players on our team that helped us win a lot of games, but like that, certain guys, they couldn’t play at end of games, even though sometimes I would want them in there. 

Miles Simon: They might be having a great game, but they couldn’t perform under pressure when it’s a close game. They became more mistake prone towards the end of games. I had to learn that in some losses, because certain things happen in the flow of games. Just value those things and then also, like you talked about the inflection of my voice, knowing when I can get on the guys and then also knowing when they need to be uplifted. Trust me, there’s times for those, sometimes in the same game, where a timeout like we didn’t have attention to detail about scouting a report and had to call a timeout and it wasn’t just one guy who was a group and We’re not Executing the game plan and you let them know. And there’s also times where teams go on a run But it was the time to uplift and let them know Hey, it’s a long game, we’re gonna make our run, we’re gonna get back in it. So, finding that balance of when to use my voice in a stronger manner or went to uplift guys at the proper time. 

Pat: Miles, you also mentioned another situation with your gut is you know, if you see a player he’s been practicing really well and maybe he’s earned some minutes in terms of when you’re looking at a player Who’s on the end of the bench or you know a rotational guy Maybe, what do you have to see in practice to convince you that maybe he is ready for more minutes? Is it does he got to make shots, or is it his effort, or is it his decision-making that you’re seeing in practice That helps convince you to say let’s give him a shot? 

Miles Simon: a lot of times It’s the effort and the concentration, like it’s a big learning point for guys in the G League, because So many of these guys in the G League, like you know, as pro basketball, when it gets pared down, so like high school Let’s just say the numbers There’s 500,000 high school players, right, and then division one whatever the note I don’t know what the number is and then in the pros, in the NBA, there’s 450, right. So as it gets pared down, the G League, these guys forget that, like every other player on their G League team was probably also One of the best players on their college team, and that these guys are good, but they all feel they should be playing above each other. So what I look for in that sense is like okay, when you’re out of the rotation, are you still coming in getting your weight lifting in? are you still taking care of your body? Are you still practicing hard each and every day? when we start going over the scouting reports, you know what’s going on during walkthrough. or you know when we’re doing scout we do scouting stuff during practices. You know what’s going on. 

Miles Simon: I asked the guy this year We’re doing some scouting report stuff and we are playing James Wiseman. I And I asked him. I said which way is James Wiseman going to drive? Which hand is he? And he didn’t know. And like James, why is it not some obscure basketball player? I didn’t feel like it was an out of pocket question to ask And I just had a feeling like that he didn’t know And he didn’t. So stuff like that you got to stay ready, so you don’t have to get ready. It also sometimes depends on the guy in front of them. If that guy is not performing now, it’s like okay, now you can maybe get an opportunity to find some minutes, and then it’s a matter of taking advantage of those opportunities when they come. 

Pat: All right Miles moving along. Our last start subset for you. So this year you guys were a top five offensive and defensive team. We want to ask you about defense and we’re going to give you three actions that are tough to defend in transition. So the start would be the toughest, in your opinion, in terms of defending. So start, sub or sit the drag screen, Option one. Option two, the delay when the team’s played as a delay. Or option three, the pistol action. 

Miles Simon: Okay, drag would be the hardest. I would start drag pistol, i would sub and then delay. 

Pat: I would sit, i guess, to kick it off. What is the most important in transition in terms of defending the drag screen for you, or what are you guys working on? 

Miles Simon: First it’s just like got to get your guys back and loaded to the ball. That’s going to help get your defense set as best as possible. But then a lot of the drag is going to depend on the player. Okay, let’s just say Steph Curry, for example, bringing it up So like my pickup point has to be a little bit higher. He has four point range. Now my guard has to pick up a little bit higher, which also means for us, our bigs, in pick and roll we play up to touch So we’re at the level of the screen. If the screen is moved out to like the four point line, i only allow my bigs to go out to like heels or toes on the three point line because I don’t need them extending out on these quick dynamic guards. Then they’re just getting blown by or they’re getting split or whatever. 

Miles Simon: But anyway. So on the drag, my big still got to be up and have some type of presence, because if it’s a guard that can shoot off a drag, you know, behind the screen or one step past the screen, then we got to be able to have some type of presence at the level of the ball. Then it’s saying that is the big, that setting dynamic roller, that gives you another set of problems If that like he’s coming and let’s say he’s slipping out and he can get to the rim quick like an Anthony Davis or something like that. Now your big is worried about the roller and he’s worried about a three point shooter. So the reason we need to be loaded to the ball is because now I need my low man to be in in case the roller gets behind my big. I got to have a nail presence that will also help my big man get back to his big on the roll And then like he’s showing that there’s a crowded lane, that there’s no driving lane, so there’s all these things and you have to worry about all these things. 

Miles Simon: Then you got to worry about like the screen being flipped and like going down hill. There’s just a lot of options out of the drag and a lot of it has to do with the players that are in it. So it’s just a dangerous and it’s such a. It’s a quick hitting action. It’s simple and because the defense usually like flowing back and most bigs run the wear and transition to the rim. They run to the rim. So it’s a hard one for like a big to stop because they always think that the biggest going to the rim. So now you’re not in really good pick and roll defensive position or alignment. 

Dan : With the drag? how much on is do you put on like the pickup point of guy guarding the ball handler and influencing the ball handler? if you can in transition to help mitigate some of the stuff of the drag, Yeah, pickup point is huge. 

Miles Simon: It becomes like personnel based really about your pickup point never below the three point line, even on like really like a non shooter. It’s usually a non shooter is usually a good driver, but we also don’t want to give him like downhill steam. So usually, like, our pickup point is no less than the three point line, depending on who we’re playing. So that’s super important. And then the way this year where we pick and roll defend up. now I’ve done it two ways because, like Frank Vogel, he was an ice guy. So last year we were like an ice team but it’s hard to ice drag pick and rolls because they happen so quickly. 

Miles Simon: But like Darwin Ham, staff is just a send it to the screen, no matter where it is pick and roll guy, And that’s usually what you have to do on drags Anyways. so just trying to influence it would get into the ball and not give a ball handler any type of freedom on picking rolls or a lot of choices is your best option Anyways, almost forcing them away. that way you’re ready to fight over screens either way that they come. So all that is super important. So like guarding the ball at the point of attack is like the number one thing. 

Pat: Miles, i’d like to ask about the pistol action which was your sub. I’ll just get specific on it. I think what can make the pistol difficult is when they kind of run that ghosting action or the guy up from the guard from the corner doesn’t really set a screen or receive the ball. How were you trying to navigate with those two guards handling these ghost screens defensively? 

Miles Simon: I’m not going to say it’s super easy, but we simplify it as best as possible. So like when a guy is a slip out guy, which most shooters are a lot of shooters do not set. When we watch the film we know that Miles is going to be a slip out guy, like he’s coming out of the corner because he just wants the flare screen to the shot. So our call is square, square, square. So that means you’re anticipating a guy who’s going to slip out and you’re telling the guy on the ball To just stay square on the ball. There’s no screen coming. Because I’m not a big switching guy Now we’ll switch on the ball if they set the screen. So we say square, square, square and Then if the guy wants to set the screen, then we just say red. So like you can be prepared, you’re staying attached to your guy And then if he wants to slip out, you’re there to be able to fight over the top of the little flare action. 

Miles Simon: We try to eliminate switch confusion as best as possible and our guys have been good at that, but we practice it a lot because there’s so much slipping action. Keith Morris actually made a great point probably three years ago, about Guarding slip outs. You can tell when a guy’s gonna slip out by the speed in which he’s coming to the ball, because if you’re running full speed you’re not gonna be able to set it because you’re gonna get a moving screen. If you’re coming with a little bit less pace, the guy’s usually gonna set Because now he has to get his feet planted. And I thought that was a great evaluation of how to guard to slip out action or go screens. 

Dan : Miles, you mentioned something you prefer not to switch if you don’t have to. 

Miles Simon: I’m just wondering, i guess, philosophy on why you prefer not to if you don’t have to so when you do a whole game plan right Let’s just take the starters, for example You’re always gonna have maybe one or two weaker defenders Hopefully it’s only one or whatever But you want to keep that guy on his matchup right Because otherwise you’re switching him on to a matchup That’s not gonna be as advantageous for your group or your team. So we don’t do a lot of off-ball switching. The only thing I allow off-ball switching, we have what are called curl switch principles. So if a guy wants to curl and it’s like guard to guard or guard to wing, that’s an automatic switch. Any rip screens or back screens where the cutter is going to the basket, that’s a switch. When they’re just running like a staggers away or something like that, you stay with your own. 

Miles Simon: We don’t allow all that switching and switch confusion and point switching and all that stuff. We stay with our matchups and it teaches guys to fight. There’s way less confusion because, like, when you start point switching, well, i thought he was gonna go do this and he was gonna do that. Well, he curl, he did this. This time he back cut. No, we have a scheme and we have principles in place for all those actions. So if you just talk it out. 

Miles Simon: It usually works out pretty well and then we don’t even really switch DHOs. You can just stay with your own because, like we want to take advantage of maybe blowing up some DHOs and finding because Guys will be weak on the toss and you can shoot the gap and, you know, maybe get a steal or deflection Stuff like that, because then you know a lot of guys are good on like DHO keeps. So like if you don’t come together on the DHO like there’s some heavy switching teams in our league We exploited some of that with just dribble keeps. They would never come together. They were anticipating we were just gonna toss the ball and our guy would keep and you literally walk to the rim or spray it out For a three. Really, the only switches that we do Consistently game-to-game are those curl switch things and then like size, like picking roll, we just say one through four, because I just consider everybody a guard or a wing. 

Dan : So if they set, then we can read you mentioned it because I was gonna ask you and follow up about the footwork Or the angles or the the coverage of your big on a DHO, because we kind of talked about you like them up to touch on a drag If possible or on on ball stuff. Does that change at all? on handoffs, like in the delay action, like their level of a handoff, how you want Distrupt the ball or not, where do you want your bigs on those handoffs? They? 

Miles Simon: should be up pressuring the ball and that way when the guy is coming off the DHO He’s at the level of the screen where we would ask him to be a DHO. It’s just another version of a pick and roll. We don’t have our bigs back, we’re up pressuring active hands, trying to get deflections having a presence. I don’t like to be just like soft and then just letting a big dictate the offense, pass the ball where he wants, because then even on DHOs, if the garter wing that’s coming to receive it, if they clip our guide, then that guy’s coming off naked and it’s turning the corner, whether it’s to attack the rim or now to two on one downhill. You know, just put you in a bad position. 

Pat: You mentioned a couple times your curl switch principle and just those off play why you settled on that, just kind of Let’s just make it a switch if they curl so one thing like I got that from Frank Vogel and He actually really designed it for the Golden State Warriors and how they play. 

Miles Simon: So if you watch, like clay and Steph, obviously those guys are monsters off the ball and that’s where they’re really most dangerous. And if you watch how they move and the way they’re just curl, it’s hard to like because they’re such great shooters. You got to go over the top, like you can’t cut screens because they’re really good on the flares. You know the guys that are setting are really good at setting the pin-ins, stuff like that. So it’s easier as a group like you’re staying connected. That guy that’s setting that curl screen, you know it’s just easy to meet them body to body. Now You’re basically picking up You know Steph or clay on that and then the guy that was guarding Steph or clay Just going body to body with the screener who’s? you know Andrew Wiggins or a good olive or whoever it might be. So it just makes it a little bit easier defensively to where you’re not giving up these layups on these curl switches And then it’s just taking away the action miles. 

Dan : You’re off the start subset hot seat. Thanks for playing that segment with us. 

Miles Simon: All right, i’m glad I was able to make it through yeah, but colors. 

Dan : That was a lot of fun. Hey, we got one last question for you to close this show before we do. Thanks again. This was really fun for us. We appreciate all your thoughts and your time today. 

Miles Simon: Yeah, no problem, i’m glad to join you guys. 

Dan : Our last question that we ask all the guests is what’s the best investment that you’ve made in your career as a coach? 

Miles Simon: by far the best investment was Leaving the NBA as the fourth assistant and becoming a G League head coach by a landslide. That was the best thing I’ve ever done. I’ve become infinitely better as a coach because I’ve taken on head coaching duties. There’s so much that goes on for a head coach you know every day, every offseason, that you just don’t get to do as an assistant coach. I’ve learned about managing people better because I have a staff of five coaches that I have to Lead every day, like when I come into a staff meeting, i’m the guy they look to to, like you know, set the tone of the meeting and what’s gonna happen that day and what’s gonna happen going forward. 

Miles Simon: I got to manage my 10 to 13 players on the floor. I have a training staff that I got to work with, you know, every day. So it’s like all these subsets of groups that all have different thoughts and opinions and like taking all that stuff in. Then also, the great advantages of that is I get to work with the South Bay front office, along with the Lakers front office, and you get to learn how front office thinks on certain things about players and what they want and What they see in players what they see in the games, where, like, as a NBA assistant coach, you’re just not privy to a lot of those conversations and a lot of those things. 

Miles Simon: And then I’ll be honest, two summers ago, when I got the job, i was like super nervous because, like dude, do I know how to run an offense? never really done it before, i’ve done it like AU, got coached in the EYBL and some other things, some college summer league But okay, can I run an NBA offense? you know, am I gonna be able to run practices every day? What are my practices gonna look like? so, just being able to do those things putting together game plan, substitution patterns, you know shootarounds all these things have just been the best investment for my career by far. 

Dan : All right, pat, wrap up time debrief. Little back-end stuff here. Coach Simon Obviously is one of the, you know, most historic college basketball players of all time and whatnot. Yeah, we’ve gotten the chance and specifically even more you Getting to work out with him. When you’d come home in the summers as you were playing Overseas, you’d work out with him quite a bit. So you know the player development stuff that we’ll get into in a second. I mean you got a chance to work out with him quite a bit over those years. So I know you know close up you’ve worked with him And I’ve got a chance to know Miles playing against him in some men’s leagues and having him crush us, you know From time to time but really a fun conversation, a lot of nuggets here that we can just dive into right away. 

Pat: So I’ll just kick it to you on your first kind of takeaways here, yeah, first, yeah, miles is a great guy So it’s been fun just getting to know him and then getting him on the podcast. I was really looking forward to this and I’m really glad where we I think we went back and forth on like the first, let’s say, our bucket where to go with it, and just knowing a little about him and then knowing, too, the nature of the G League, i’m glad we settled on the player development and specifically how he thinks about just kind of putting in plans of action and how he thinks about not only the individual but the conceptual. So it was really fun here. In his thoughts, because I know he does it really well I enjoyed the most out of the first segment was when we got into just players that are struggling, stagnating, and I thought he spoke really well on kind of the realistic nature that some players get it and some players don’t. 

Pat: I mean he was honest that you of course don’t stop coaching them but you just keep trying and keep trying. You celebrate the little things that happen And I mean he gave a good example of finally it clicked for one of their players who finally was making the dump off passes. But I think it’s a very real part of the game And it went into a little bit later when we started talking about like the feel of the game too And hearing that conversation that maybe some it’s natural and you can, maybe you can get a little bit, but you can never really develop feel. In his opinion It was cool The whole conversation I enjoyed about dealing with stagnating players and how you just kind of continue to push forward in the course of a season. 

Dan : And I know you and I have talked about this a lot off air the last couple of weeks about these plateaus. Yeah, because it’s always great when you see a player get better and better and better and then become a better, better player and your team gets better and that’s all great. But players plateau, they reach a certain level and you know, then that’s good. I think what I really liked was adding to your point about kind of defining reality, and it is a huge part of, obviously, miles’ job is to develop these players but also then to deal in realities, and it’s sometimes almost it’s huge as a coach to be able to understand what your players can and can’t do and coach them to that. And that’s not meaning you don’t give up on the players that maybe can’t perform at a certain level or aren’t understanding, but you can still find ways to have them help you win. And it almost helps you coach maybe a little bit better, because you just know, okay, here’s certain guys that can do this, here’s ones that can’t at this point, and so we can’t wait for them to develop. We got to win some games. I mean he talked about two. 

Dan : One of my key takeaways in that section was about. You know, the Lakers are all about winning and he’s all about winning. So that’s what it ultimately comes down to And I think defining that reality is huge. And obviously he talked to it. 

Dan : And the plateau conversation it’s a very, very real one that every level, every coach deals with the player that just is hit a plateau or has hit their peak maybe, or, like in his case too, he talked about, the player ahead of them is just maybe better And that’s going to be a roadblock for them. So there’s a ton in there. I wrote down too, like we had the chance it was. We really loved our conversation with Phil Beckner recently as well, where we hit on player development and his thoughts on it, and I think what’s interesting is we talked about, like the different angles here, where Miles also is the head coach who’s doing the player development too, so he has to then make some of these decisions And Phil talked about we talked a lot about, you know, getting players to certain levels and things like that. So two different angles coming off of it. That I liked and kind of tied back in myself On that note. 

Pat: I think with coach Beckner, you know he said then you got to really focus on like the minutiae, the tiniest details, maybe to help that player get over this hump or start continuing to grow a little bit And then, like you said, with Miles, who’s running a team, maybe becomes more about how do I protect that player and not put him in the situations where, whether it’s struggle or maybe you’re going to run into failure or breed frustration, probably is a better point, not only with the player but then also the coach who’s continuing to put them in these situations, that he just is not prepared to excel out or find the solution. 

Pat: So, piggybacking off of the point you made, yeah, which was enjoyable about this conversation and also enjoyable about, you know, coach Beckner is just approaching it at two different angles And Miles did hit on it too at the beginning of the pod when he was more in that player development realm before becoming a coach, And I thought it was a fun, honest conversation of just how you kind of go through a season when a player is struggling or not producing at the way that you’re attempting to teach it, let’s say For sure. 

Dan : And it kind of relates to it as well. He made a point And maybe this is also tying in a conversation I would like to have more of and go deeper is end of game players versus non-end of game players. Yeah, that was a great point he brought up Like it just gets to trust, and we talked about it a little bit. I thought it was a really great point and it’s really true And maybe we’ll try to resurface that conversation somewhere else and go deeper with another coach. I liked his points And I think it’s really true as a coach, of who you trust and who you can play down the stretch that doesn’t, i guess, shrivel or have the pressure get to them. 

Pat: Yeah, i agree, i think that was definitely. I mean, as we think about things we would have loved to have talked about more if we had unlimited time. That was one of them. He kind of brought that up at the end of our first start subset segment. I enjoyed too. Another kind of tangent we went on was how he knows when a player is ready or he’s been practicing really well, the gut to give more minutes, and it’s a conversation we’ve been having, i think, a lot lately too. Just the importance of having a player who can concentrate. Yeah, you know, that really builds a lot of trust in a coaching staff. When you know this player is concentrated, he’s locked in. I mean, i’m sure, as everyone thinks, it’s like, oh, skill he can produce, but it comes out of these small things that maybe keep you off the court. 

Dan : Adding to your point, i think we’re in start subset now. We love start subset. It’s always so much fun for us to see where they go. And, side note, you and I were stressing up to the very last minute before Miles hopped on, because sometimes we have these pretty locked in the start subsets well before And we had a hard time coming up with our two for some reason this morning. But at the 11th hour we got them both And I actually just really loved the conversations that came out of both. 

Dan : So I guess, kind of sticking on what was the executive underrated coaching skills, that good instinct thing, he just really spoke well on it And I loved how he’s developed it. You know how he was as a player. I think anybody that has ever watched Miles played Arizona and you know. And then his career in the NBA, i mean, and you and I had a chance to kind of play against it. Yeah, his instincts are off the charts as a player, but then as a coach, to how he’s kind of developed that, i took that away a lot jumping ahead, i guess, to his best investment answer was just really a great, real answer about the value of becoming a head coach versus being the fourth assistant, like you mentioned, and how I think that’s probably helped with his gut instinct to of knowing how to manage people and all the things he mentioned. So I’m kind of throwing a lot back actually here with start subset, but those were some takeaways, kind of tying his best investment into that first one, for me too, yeah, and you know the tough to defend one. 

Dan : There was a ton of nuggets he threw in there. 

Pat: Yeah, the switching conversation and why he’s not a switching coach, yep, but then the couple principles he has. I really enjoyed his philosophy. And then hearing about the curl switch principle those nuggets, i mean that’s not. I mean, okay, it’s not a foreign concept, but it’s something I don’t think we’ve heard on the pod And just his philosophy of why just kind of let’s just automatically switch it and solve it that way. 

Dan : You know that was also like I kind of wrote down as maybe a conversation we can have deeper, whether video breakdown or another coach on the kind of more of the details on what types of screens to switch versus not switch. He had mentioned any kind of rim attacking screen like a rip screen. 

Pat: Yeah, a rip screen or a back screen. 

Dan : We’ll switch, that this curl switch makes sense because that curl is taking you to the rim, so that kind of you know. It goes into that philosophy. And we talked to another Lakers assistant Jent Yeah, coach Jent on the staff now And he also vehemently, i remember, hated the point switch. We asked him about switching and Miles doesn’t like the point switch either And I liked hearing his thoughts. Why have you got a sense of Miles’s defensive tendencies to be aggressive, pressure knife in on the DHOs and things like that? And sometimes the point switch though it can be super effective if done well, it can lead to guys just kind of pointing and switching and not being aggressive on certain actions. 

Pat: I agree, and he did mention your favorite DHOs, and just how they attack those point switches, those DHO keepers. So I started salivating a little bit over here. Maybe we’d lost you. 

Dan : Yeah, i was ready to see if he could go another hour on. the DHO is my favorite For sure, So big thanks again to coach Simon. Much success to him. Yeah, I think it’s a good place to end it. as good as any. Okay sounds good. Thanks everybody for listening and we’ll do this again next time.