Slappin’ Glass sits down this week with championship winning Italian Pro Coach, Walter De Raffaele! Coach De Raffaele details his unique insights into running a matchup 3-2 zone, including the rules, reads, and philosophy behind it, along with “real coaching growth”, and Princeton-based set designs during the always fun “Start, Sub, or Sit?!”
Inside the Episode
It’s also an important part of our job that you need to be able to manage (losing). You need to be able to answer, especially after losing games. But what I think is important, when you come back on the court, is the face that you show to your players after this game. And I’m a coach that tries really to analyze situations. The most difficult thing is that when you pass through this period, it’s important that you understand why and how you lost this kind of game. – Walter De Raffaele
We had the chance to sit down this week with one of the best minds in the International game when it comes to Zones and playing unique defense, Walter De Raffaele! Coach De Raffaele has found success at various levels of professional basketball and shed light on a number of his ideas including:
- The Philosophy, Rules, and Teaching Points of the 3-2 Zone
- Princeton-Based Set Designs
- “Real Coaching Growth”
- And much more
Chapters
0:00 Exploring Coach DeRaffaelli’s Zone Defense Philosophy
9:53 Strategies and Benefits of Zone Defense
17:21 Defensive Strategies and Zone Coverage Decisions
31:16 Coaching Growth
38:11 Princeton Offense
48:22 Coaching Strategies and Insights
58:56 Coach Confrontations and the Princeton Offense
Transcript
Coach De Raffaele: 0:00
It’s also an important part of our job that you need to be able to manage. You need to be able to answer, especially after losing games. But what I think is important when you come back on the court, is the face that you show to your players after this game and I’m a coach that tries really to analyze situations. The most difficult thing is that when you pass through this period, it’s important that you understand why and how you lost this kind of game.
Dan Krikorian: 0:34
Hi, I’m Dan Krikorian and I’m Patrick Carney, and welcome to Slapping Glass exploring basketball’s best ideas, strategies and coaches from around the world. Today we’re excited to welcome Italian professional coach Walter De Raffaele. Coach De Raffaele is here today to discuss the philosophy, rules and subtle tweaks to his 3-2 matchup zone, and we talk Princeton offense as a base to sets and real-life coaching growth during the always fun start, sub or sit. Costa Rica, spain, italy, Australia, south Africa. We’re excited to announce our newest partnership with the world leader in international sport tours. Beyond Sports Founder and former college and pro basketball coach Josh Erickson and his team of former athletes have built the go-to company for coaches looking to take their programs abroad. From the travel and accommodations to excursions and service learning opportunities, beyond Sports does it all. For more information and to learn why more than 650 universities have trusted Beyond Sports, visit beyondsportstours. com and tell them. Slapping Glass sent you. And now please enjoy our conversation with coach Walter De Raffaele. Coach, thank you very much for making the time to come and share some thoughts with us. Can’t wait to jump in and talk with you.
Coach De Raffaele: 2:13
Thank you for calling me. It’s a great pleasure to share some ideas, something to talk about basketball is always a pleasure, so thank you, coach.
Dan Krikorian: 2:20
Thank you, Coach. We’d like to jump in with this question for you. In your past you’ve been known to mix in a variety of zone defenses matchup zones, regular zones, three, twos, all types of zones, I’m sure throughout your career and we wanted to start with that and more of a philosophical question to start and then we’ll get technical in a second but what it is about having a zone or putting a zone in as part of your defensive package, that you’ve always been drawn to as a coach.
Coach De Raffaele: 2:48
We need to start a little bit back in my career as a player, or a player between first and second league in Italy, but as a player. A coach that was Alberto Bucci, was a very important coach here in Italy, coached for Virtus Bologna. He won a championship here in Italy when he came in Livorno, in my town, and coached us for four or five years and we are talking about 889, probably he was not still born, but was one of the first coach that showed me the matchup zone, was one of the first coach that really did tactical stuff, really to show limits to the other and to cover our limits With only six players. We arrived to the famous final. You can go to YouTube the 1989 finals versus Milano. We lost game five by last second shot. It’s famous because referees in the first time they give basket, so we won the season After one hour. They said that was not valid, so we lost the season. Oh wow. But anyway, everything started from there because when I was there I was 18. And I started thinking because really I always liked to talk with coaches, also if I played, and it was the first time when I started coaching. I started coaching when I was 31 as assistant coach and then I started with the young guys in my city and also with the young guys. Immediately I put the zone inside because I love to let the other team and break the flow of the team. Natural death is not every time happened, but the idea to let the other team and really force the other team to recognize and lost some second. Then we can talk about that. Maybe also extending the zone defense full court after basket, after free throws, was something that really I love a lot, also with young guys. The zone okay in the year. My 3-2 zone defense really developed in years the different situation, different adjustment or mesh up to the other offense alignment, because especially in Italy, you can find maybe five, six different offensive set versus 3-2 zone defense. So it’s very easy to adjust the zone differently is when you play in Europe. But everything starts there because I was really involved in tactical stuff. So during preparing a game I really love to break the set, doing something different, and I started developing the zone with young guys and I immediately start with the 3-2 zone defense. Why? First of all because I hate the 2-3 zone defense. So that’s an easy answer that I always gave to everybody asking me Because it’s really something on a skin that I really feel that is so easy to beat and so I’m really not able to teach Every time. In these years I try to teach the 2-3 zone defense Because maybe my big man was really so slow, like I don’t know Casper Wiermar I had in my team so it was really difficult to play a 3-2 zone defense aggressive in the corners with the guys like that. All the offensive set attacked him in the corners with guards, so we was forced to play a 2-3 zone defense or to adjust and become starting a 3-2 zone defense and then we’ll be a 2-3 on his side. So we were forced sometimes to play a 2-3 zone defense. But I was really bad to teach Was really bad Because honestly, especially talking about defense, players believe in what the coaches believe. That’s something that I really learned through these years and if you are not deeply convinced about what you are trying to teach to players, it’s very difficult that the players follow you or something runs in the right way. So the first choice is about the 3-2 zone defense is because I think that the alignment really helped me to cover more versus guards and situations where the offense was more dangerous and at the beginning I really chose to play the 3-2 zone defense, regular 3-2 zone defense, with a lot of adjustment, especially on picker holes, because now in the game there are really a lot of different picker hole situations and we can talk about this adjustment. But also because when I played the matchup zone defense as a player, the game was really slower, really not so athletic, really not so physical, and at the end everything arrived to a situation in the last 5-6 seconds where everybody creates by his own selves and I really don’t think that now, with 24 seconds, with these athletic skills, it’s so easy to measure a single situation on every single set. I prefer to guard general rules on picker holes and start with different alignment and maybe become another kind of zone during the same possession. So that’s the first goal. Every time players measure every alignment. Like I don’t know, every single set starts with the ball in the middle and then dribble over on the side the top man in the middle of the zone, dribble over full of these men and try to measure up immediately. No, we got really clear rules about that, where the man on the top of the zone got the responsibility of everything. We let them. Feel the 3-point line in his middle zone, feel the free throw line all that far. So every pass on the high post when the ball is on the side is his responsibility. Every time, especially when the ball is on the side and is defenced by the wing and the other wing covered the diagonal in the corner and the corner, the man on the bottom on the same side is ready to go in the corner. But what I said to the players are really simple rules Everybody in his own zone has to play defense, aggressive mental man, really aggressive mental man, for his part of zone when the responsibility is for him. And they have to move while the ball flies. The bigger mistake is that a lot of players move when the ball is already arrived or, worse than that, they anticipate their movement and move earlier, for example, from the wing to the corner. As I told you, many bigs got the habits and this is need to coach, and then you can ask, we can talk about how we coach. But this is one of the bigger mistakes to move, because the two bigs on the bottom are really connected, like with the group. So they have to stay close, not more than two, three meters, and they have to move together while the ball flies. Natural that more you have pressure on the ball, more time you give to this guy to move, and if you anticipate all this movement, my zone is really something that really destroys us, because everybody has to move in the right way and you have to be connected, also mentally, because there are some rules that you need to really focus.
Dan Krikorian: 9:49
Coach, if you don’t mind, would it be possible to hear some of those rules?
Coach De Raffaele: 9:53
For example, we got rules about ball in the corner to the foreman side and the foreman on the bottom go in the corner to the ball. We pass straight man to man. So every time the ball goes to the corner we pass man to man and from that point, natural that we try to mash up bigs with bigs, but it’s almost impossible that this will happen every time. So it could be that we got our foreman versus a guard and so we really think about depends on the player. We think about the blitz. We reduce the mismatch immediately and every ball screen that will happen. We switch everything, also five with the point or point with the foreman. So we pass man to man and we switch everything. Then we think about how to react on mismatch. That for sure will happen. It could be our big versus a point on the top, it could be our guard versus a big inside. And natural that we practice and we prepare a situation where we try to trap for a big man mismatch trap on top if we want to reduce the mismatch on top. And on this same situation, if, for example, we got another rules where the ball goes straight from the top to the high post and naturally the ball is defense by the top man, but the ball goes to the high post. Probably one of our big men is a little bit closer to the high post. If we have corner empty, immediately we pass man to man. So this is the second situation where we go straight from zone. Man to man Could be also after two seconds. Many sets start in that way and also from that point everything will happen, will be switches, or it would be that in a game we decide to don’t switch and maybe follow man to man and we stay. So it depends on which team we will face up or depends which player is with the ball. And the third situation is but now it’s common 10 years ago was the last common that now that we pass man to man last 8, 7 seconds to the shot club At the beginning of the season. I give a name to that and I call it from the bench because I control the shot clock. Then during the season, players, that really brings this kind of zone inside themselves. They feel, and they felt absolutely when the time is passing and they call this pass man to man from the zone defense. So these are three situations and you understand that these are stuff that force the other team to think a lot or to recognize different situations. Especially if you focus or if you imagine, figure out from the free throw line where we extend this kind of defense three-two zone defense, full court, same alignment then we can talk about who put in the middle. Many times I put the pointer, especially when I had Julian Stone is a big bad in the middle and allow me to really switch everything. Or sometimes we put the three men in the middle, depends what you’re looking for. But if you extend this kind of defense, full court from the free throws, I said to my players okay, don’t think that full court, you need absolutely to steal the ball. The main goal is that you let them waste their time to recognize, first of all, attack the zone defense, full court. And maybe they use I don’t know four seconds, five seconds to go on the second half court could be. Then they need some extra second to recognize the right alignment and probably pass other two, three, four seconds and then, depends on these cases that I talked about before, they have to face up, maybe a man-to-man defense, switching everything and blitzing, so natural. These are situations that need time because especially for have the right timing and spacing between players. We need time to practice, but once they have really deeply inside, this is something that also they use by themselves sometimes because we use the zone also after a call. We play that to school in Germany and they got a set that really we think that is very effective on us for many reasons. We wait for their call and we pass the zone immediately after their call. So they are forced to change or probably they are forced to stop. So the zone use it also to break the flow or to change what happened on the court. Or maybe we use the time out from the other team because probably the other team call the time out, things doesn’t run. They want to use a set, special set, man-to-man, and we go out with the zone defense and they let them little bit frustrated to recognize a different kind of zone. Or we use the zone because other things kick our ass. Man-to-man Sometimes happens. So we try also the zone. But many times this zone, especially with players that really deeply believe on that, is something effective to let the other team think and do something, maybe man-to-man instead zone defense. Sometimes in Italy now lot of teams do this kind of stuff from zone to man-to-man, but we try to develop different stuff in different situation.
Patrick Carney: 14:59
You mentioned that the zone is good at covering your players limits. When you look at your team, I guess what are the benefits of the zone? What limits do you look to cover up when you’re going to play a zone?
Coach De Raffaele: 15:08
As I told you many times, this kind of okay when you play the game, not every time you got the best five players defensively talking on the court. Maybe you are small, maybe you are thin, maybe you are not so solid man-to-man you face up a Euroleague team, for example. So you need absolutely to cover the physical limit of man-to-man defense. Or, for example, in a zone defense you are maybe weak in that moment. On pick-and-roll situation, talking man-to-man, maybe zone defense, let the other team play a little bit less or play the same pick-and-roll situation. But in the zone players, step-man-to-man, are covered by their teammates. So it’s different because they work in a different way on any pick-and-roll situation, either on the side to the middle or to the middle on the side. So you try to cover this because maybe you are switching on pick-and-roll, so these are the same thing. For example, if you got a big man that in that moment is really effective on us in low post, you need to have your big man on the court because you can’t sub for any reason. But you need to cover him, either for foul trouble maybe for him or some different spot, or you want to protect anyway because he has to stay on the court With the zone defense, you can mash up in a different way and protect in different ways. Or is a moment or is a situation where the team really suffers man-to-man defense and you need absolutely to have a different spacing in defense and to protect your player.
Dan Krikorian: 16:41
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Coach De Raffaele: 17:43
I start from the second question. It’s not an easy defense for the reason that we had a lot of different rules, especially about rotation on picker blitzing, mismatch and blah, blah, blah. So nine times out of 10, I put the point guard in the middle because I need really an high cue in the middle, because it’s a key position to cover the high post when the ball is on the side and the high post is a key position to avoid the ball goes. And it’s the same that we’re looking for in offense. We look to put the ball on the high post. On the high post, ball in the middle, you can really attack every kind of zone. So that’s the situation that the point guard has to be smart. And the first question that the point guard had did on me is that, okay, I go on the high post when the ball is on his side? I got also the shooter on top where I go and my answer is fly to hide the ball, fly. The ability to anticipate the ball movement, looking maybe the eyes of the passer, is so fundamental to coaches. So that’s why it’s important that we put Netula if you’ve got a point guard with big body, as I told you, junior Stone was. So it was very easy. Differentially, I put the three men especially. For example, when we go from man to man, we have a big body in the middle because if you figure out that probably I go after five seconds, I go man to man so the three men stay on the ball. Pick all these coming on switches where we switch every time we got the three men on the fire. So that’s the other reason why when I have the three men in the middle, naturally if I got a small point guard, we need absolutely to switch and rotate from the wist side and put the point guard outside. So the begin and small out immediately. So our different reason but the first one is because I need the very good IQ basketball in the middle. The second, about the rotation, as I told you, first of all we try to push every of our big men that they move really, while the bull flies they can arrive. But honestly a lot of guards really attack our big. So it’s not easy so many times when the ball is straight on the top or better, when the ball is on a wing and flight on five men opposite corner or on the same corner where the ball is, who difference the wing and the ball flight from the wing to the corner. We got our five men immediately the wing around in the corner as a trap back our big men and the middle man on the top rotates on the wing and is immediately 2-3. Easier, if this will happen from the wing to the opposite corner Immediately, the diagonal is covered by the wing, is immediately 2-3 zone defense, as is the 2-3 zone defense from every baseline in bound, and usually we go zone from every baseline in bound for the same reason, because many teams from baseline in bound steal basket. So this is another situation that you can avoid. I don’t know understand what I mean.
Dan Krikorian: 20:42
Yes.
Coach De Raffaele: 20:42
These are the two reasons If we decide to keep our 5 on the guard in the corner for any reason. For example, we have Mitchell Watt quick fit so he can really keep it, but we force him to push the ball higher towards the wing, because if we push the ball towards the wing, we got a wing that can bleed and push back the big man. Anyway, it’s not a 2-3, but he pushed back. So that’s why it’s so important that they really realize how much this zone is connected and how much is important the timing, if not, is really water everywhere?
Patrick Carney: 21:18
Sticking on defending the corners. You also mentioned that if it’s a 4-man who’s going to go out to the corner, that you’ll just go straight man-to-man. Yes, how did you settle on that or the reasoning behind that and getting out of the zone?
Coach De Raffaele: 21:30
Because we focused that. Okay, could be that some games we decide to make a different decision. In every game that we prepare we can decide something different. But many times the 4-man now in a modern basket will sometimes the 3 that become 4 or vice versa. So they are really quick and they can really hold almost every guard, every 3-man. So we realized that was really easier, instead going to another kind of rotation. As I told you, push back bleed, push back the 4-man. What’s easier on that side, do something on the other side, do something else. So also for the offense. It’s the same reason. The offense has to recognize hey, watch out the 4-man side, ball in the corner. Maybe they go man-to-man, maybe not On the 5-man side, I don’t know what will happen. They go 2-3, they keep man-to-man. So it’s every time, but for us these years, so we don’t spend day. That is not the best defender in the world, but also with him we really pass man-to-man immediately. And, netola, if we got I don’t know Teodosic in the corner versus Austin Day, probably we will bleed anyway and we try to trap and force Teodosic to pass the ball out.
Dan Krikorian: 22:40
Another technical question for me in the 3-2, and you mentioned the 4 or the 5 bumping out to the corner and probably the pointer at the top. Now, with your two wings, where do you want them? How high are they on the wing? Are they trying to not let the ball get to the corner on a pass? How aggressive are they in those two wing spots for you?
Coach De Raffaele: 23:00
When we start teaching the 3-2 zone defense, I said every time that they have to play defense versus shooter till the shooting range of every single shooter they will meet. So if they have unbelievable shooters they need to play really, maybe also one or two meters outside the 3-point line. Netola, they know the skills of every player but there’s no an exactly distance. As I told you, teodosic can shoot from 8 meters. So if you stay inside the 3-point line he really immediately shot. Netola, that my defense is a defense that don’t want to wait. We don’t want to wait the initiative from the offense, we want to attack the offense. So we try to be aggressive, sometimes also only with the pointer that extend the defense full court by himself and the two wings stay a little bit higher on the 3-point line on our half court and the pointer work by himself, only to waste time that the two wings are ready to be aggressive. As I told you the beginning, they play aggressive man to man on their zone. So if they defense I don’t know a 3-man, no shooter, they can really stay a little bit less aggressive, but I don’t want that. They move the ball easy. So the aggressiveness is almost the same, netola, when the ball is in the corner. We can decide sometimes to let the ball out and we let our wings stay a little bit cover on paint and sometimes we deny the ball back because, especially if the foreman is in the corner, they need to have the habits to deny the ball back because probably we are man to man if the foreman is in the corner.
Patrick Carney: 24:31
So depends really from who we got and we face up Another tactical question with the pick and rolls at the top how you handle those if they’re at the top or if they’re in the slot going middle. What are kind of your rules? Coverage is there.
Coach De Raffaele: 24:45
I try to explain as better as possible without showing something, but figure out that the point guard is in the middle with the ball coming from 5-man. Many zone defense, let the 5-man follow up and become almost a man to man defense. With the 5-man that drop inside, we did really something different. When the 5-man is coming, natural communication is a key part of this zone, absolutely. Ambige has to talk more than guards because, as I told them, they are the only that are on the bottom and really saw everything will happen on the shoulder of their teammates. So they need to talk and they need to call the picker always coming. And when they really call picker always coming, the two wings that are on top as to recognize is the picker always coming from the side or to the other side In that moment, figure out an easier situation Double eye the point guard is in the middle and we got 4 and 5-man. Many times that zone the picker always start on the 5-man side, almost. I said to the wing that now his own responsibility is the 5-man. So he got a 5-man, the picker always coming from the middle to the side. He show out really hard edge like a big man, he play like a 5 and he are edge two steps and he hold the ball. So is what will happen nine times out of 10 that we got the offensive wing, that is, 45 free throw line extension outside the 3. For sure, on a double eye, they are waiting to shoot, especially in a 5-man side. So we need that on this show aggressive. We need really to let the pass out slow. The ball goes out and probably go to the wing and is ready to shoot. If he is a 4-man, you know we are meant to man the 4-man goes and we are meant to man. But if he is a 5, the 5 goes, adjust his position, is ready to go and the two or the 3-man that did the hard edge show. Why do you recognize that the ball fly immediately when the ball pass on his head as to turn and spring to help the 5-man that is running outside to the wing and become like a quick trap and bump back the 5, as happened in the corner, happened in the wing. Natural that the little wrist will get a 3-point shot, but we can really cold situation where this could happen with different shooters. But this is something natural that the pointer got the roller for one second because if you figure out the pointer, dribble, the wing, our edge, the 5-man is rolling. So we need that, our pointer, when the 5-roll don’t roll under but roll over, to deny an easy bound pass on a free throw line, that is not easy. Also, to deny an easy triangle pass, top wing, high post. But the real coordination is from the weak side, the 4-man. That is not involving this rotation has to get the 5-man rolling immediately and bump back the pointer. That probably come back on the top. This is one of the key situation. Then, talking about that, we can decide, for example, no edge but only flat defense between guards, or do nothing and follow the dribble and you stay. That’s maybe a matchup zone for that offense. Or double eye. They start on the 4-man side many times with pass and off back flat. 5-man is coming, we switch between guards so the wing got the ball, the 5-man is coming. That’s a pick-and-roll from the side to the middle, so we don’t play defense in the same way. We force the ball defender to go over the pick-and-roll and the top has to stand and back because many times the pointer is still in the middle to play the second pick-and-roll situation Got it ball back in the middle. So our top has to stay in the middle because the ball goes back to the point he got it. And now the second pick-and-roll is from the middle to the side, probably with the 4-man, and over there we edge and switch. So these are situations that we need to coach, not every day, but for sure in pre-season, for sure in the training camp, for sure one day for a week, for sure 20 minutes on every practice. We need to do it because it’s something that has to be and become automatically.
Dan Krikorian: 28:58
So you love the zone, all the stuff we’ve talked about, but when either a matchup or offensively you decide, it’s not something we’re going to go to tactically.
Coach De Raffaele: 29:07
If, for example, we used the zone because we was down by a pin and I felt that the zone really helped us to, came back in a game, feel down by 3 tie, probably I’ll keep it till the end. Or I alternate really quick. Sometimes I alternate every possession, players go crazy and I alternate, my players go crazy and we use in that way If, for example, I recognize after one to two possession that mentally they are not connected zone and they miss immediately, easy rotation or easy communication, probably I keep for one possession or two because it’s impossible to play if you are soft, not connected, not focused, you can tell me okay, every kind of zone, you can do it. No, you can play an easy two-three zone defense, hope that the other miss the shot. You can play an aggressive zone if you want to make the game and so our situation natural, last possession, late in the shot clock for the last minute, very difficult. That the last possession in defense I kept the zone is more probably that I put the zone from a side line inbound or baseline inbound to the last possession in defense to win or lose the game. Because many teams, maybe almost the team, prepared the last 4 seconds, 5 seconds shot versus a man to man defense difficult that they prepare versus a zone. So this is our situation that I can take off the zone.
Dan Krikorian: 30:33
A quick thank you to our newest partner here at Slapping Glass, one of the best tech companies in the world of sports, huddle. As many of you know, huddle extends an array of useful products to coaches, from their auto tracking camera, huddle Focus, live streaming tool, huddle TV, wearable athlete performance tracker, wimoo, and their newest offering, huddle Instat, an all-in-one data powerhouse platform that combines advanced tagging with the global film library. For more information on all that’s offered with Huddle Instat, visit Huddlecom slash Slapping Glass today. Thanks to Huddle for the support. And now back to our conversation. Coach, this has been great so far. Thanks for all your thoughts. We wanna transfer over to a segment on the show that we call start, sub or sit. Will give you three different options around the topic ask you to start one, sub one and sit one, and so, coach, if you’re ready, will dive in on this first question for you ready. Okay, coaches. First one has to do with we’re just saying this is about real life Coaching growth, and so I’m gonna give you three different potentially negative situations that can happen to a coach but are actually positive for coaching growth, and so your start would be the one that you feel would offer the most potential for growth for the coach. So start, sub or sit. The first option is a bad player coach confrontation, so you get into it with the player. That in a way that’s maybe not great. The second option is going through a two, three, four game losing streak as a head coach and what you figure out about yourself in your team. And the third option is losing a close game down the stretch and what you learn from that close game that lost. So start, sub or sit those three coaching growth moments.
Coach De Raffaele: 32:22
It’s not easy, for sure not the third one. I think that, honestly, is a middle way for me between the first one and that’s second one. If I had to choose as a coach, I think losing three or five games in a row because after that many doubt comes out in your mind, many question okay, I put on the side all the stuff like owners and journalists put on a site we are talking Is also an important part of our job that you need to be able to manage. You need to be able to answer and specially after losing games. But what I think is important, when you come back on the court, the face that you show to your players after these games, not without that. Many times I said the coach knows who and how really you lost the games. So Under the shower you know that you as a coach lost the game. Many times that happened that back home and say, fuck, I lost this game because if I do this I do that, but I know that I lost this game. Also close game maybe with a bad choice, but many times don’t depends on you, depends only because that can and I’m a coach that right really to analyze situation. The most difficult things is that when you pass through this period is important that you understand why and how you lost. This kind of game sometimes could be that you are lucky, sometimes could be other teams better than you. Because many times owner ask me why you lost because the other way and that’s the easier answer. That is maybe stupid, but many times we forget that there are teams that maybe are that moment better than you. But also knowing if you lost because you don’t really feel the team, you don’t really feel the chemistry, don’t really feel the flow of the game, you don’t really feel that the team is what you think about the team, so it’s difficult to come back in a gym and explain and show over practical and technical situation didn’t run and show where we need to work on. And that’s why it’s connected to the first, because the communication with players is a very important part of the very point of emphasis for my way to coach, because I think that, especially for key players at, this kind of communication is so much important also to understand why things doesn’t run, because many times you got a vision and your vision is not exactly what happened on the court but to grow enough if you are able to don’t think that you have to change everything because you lost so much what you don’t mean that you don’t have to change nothing. But you are the same coach when you win, the same coach when you lost, that you are able to adjust your stuff. But don’t think because in that moment, everybody you meet is a coach. Everybody is better than you, everybody got a solution, but no better than you know what will happen. Your assistant coaches and your staff can help you. Natural that the way to have communication is something that brings out a lot of energy to yourself and you need to recharge. In some ways, it’s easier To do your business. Don’t care about players if you win or lost, but that’s a choice of everybody. For how is this a person before the coach? And I’m that kind of person that really to share this situation to the most important is not Better player, but most important player in the team, and not the same thing.
Patrick Carney: 35:45
Can you just elaborate on the difference between the most important player and the best player on the team?
Coach De Raffaele: 35:50
Many times the best player or the most talented player is a player where maybe you don’t have special communication or is a silent leader, so it don’t communicate nothing to the teammates, nothing but is only an example on the court, is an example on practices I can talk about. Michael Brahmos is our Michael Jordan, probably for what he did with Julian Stone, and this player in Venice or Austin and other much but especially. Michael is a silent leader but wasn’t an unbelievable example on the court during the game, during the practice. But one of the most important player in the clutch moment of the season, in the losing moment of the season, was a player that maybe you know talking about. For example, bruno Scherella came from Milano, was an Italian guy that really play maybe five minutes per game, sometimes did not play but was so important to connect, for example, italians with foreign player. To connect, to use the right word in that kind of practice is after losing. Games that give me so much energy, positive energy, and give me also some feedback about the feeling of the locker room and not every time I ride from the best player, best player are also so much important in that way. That’s amazing and sometimes I was lucky to have this kind of player sometimes know as, for example, the season.
Dan Krikorian: 37:15
We’re kind of connecting all these three and I liked what you said about the most important player in losing streaks and how you communicate and things like that. I’d like to go back and ask you about the start here and what you’re learning through the losing streak and what over the course of your career. When your team is struggling and you want to make a change, how you think about delivering that change to the team. Whether it’s going to be a tactical change, maybe starting lineup change, new players when you’re trying to figure out something new what you’ve learned about how to communicate that in a way that doesn’t break the whole thing up and lead to more losing.
Coach De Raffaele: 37:49
Players are smarter than people think. That’s the first thing, especially professional players. I level knows that when things doesn’t run or we struggle, something will happen. So they are ready to some change and especially in the way to share ideas with stuff or sometimes with players. For me, the only way is to tell them the truth. So if I have to change the lineup, I go to the player involving that and I’m telling true, the true straight is not nice, but I need to do it to do something different. Or, for example, we need to change the way also to practice to have maybe more intensity, because it’s something that we are not able to reproduce during the game. Or we need to put some set more inside playbook. We did the communication that that. The worst communication for me is when you have to say that in that moment one player doesn’t really run in his spot Not to be fired but to have a different role inside the team in that moment. So players knows, but not every time. They are so available to us at this, true, true, but I try to be myself every time. There is no a special way or a secret there, something that you have to do it, because after that you need to think that players are also under pressure. We general manager, owner, the agent, the family. So many times players, also efficient, are not effective on the court, maybe for some problems that are outside. So we need also to think that there’s a man on the court and we need also to understand some time that. I repeat one more time this way brings you a lot of energy out, but also give you back something in the clutch moment, in the key moment, in a struggle moment. When I said to my players I hope that please one percent also for the coach, I hope sometimes happen.
Patrick Carney: 39:51
Over your years? What have you learned about when these player coach confrontations happen and just your thoughts on them happening and how you then deal with them after?
Coach De Raffaele: 40:02
Okay. What I learned is that when you got this confrontation with the players is that you have to be ready to hear something that you really don’t believe, like Okay, coach, this is something that really don’t run, or this is something that we can do it, coach. Or you need to hear, like I got a coach, listen, but these two players hate each other. They can play together, or the locker room is broken, something that you really can’t believe, or you don’t realize. Or sometimes they said wanna speak bad about my teammates, but watch out because the locker room is broken some places in a soul, or this is something. The most difficult things but plus obvious is also technically or practically, when you have to hear that things doesn’t run. Technically could be a set, could be a zone, to be a choice, and you need to be honestly. If you speak with them is because you believe in this player. You don’t speak with everybody. You don’t give the license to say everything to everybody me know for sure. But so probably you got confidence and you believe so much in this player that you are also available to listen, not only to give them your message. You need to bring the message and try to find the way, because sometimes it’s all is also a big fight on that. So and this is the biggest thing that I learned from place, and once you are available to really listen, that is not only to stay there but is really listen not here, but listen and is totally different. If you are so available, you can really manage with your stuff and really understand. If this thing mesh up with your idea and try to find a way without change everything. Maybe sometimes is like coach really tired to this fucking meeting on video for understand what I mean. Sometimes you break your head for amazing or crazy or big things, but sometimes is easier than it all. Sometimes is nothing, sometimes is coach, nothing else. We need to keep working little bit unlucky. Keep working. The way is right. We are working with you. Need to stay together. The worst, think, is really to keep everybody together.
Patrick Carney: 42:14
Our next start subset. We’re gonna look at the offensive side of the ball here now and we’re calling this Princeton benefits. So we’re gonna give you three things, with your start being the most beneficial or what you like most about running pieces of the Princeton offense. I love. Okay, then this is right up your alley. Here you go. Option one is the cutting that is involved in the offense. Option two would be the elevated spacing lifting up off the baseline. Option three would be just the ability to set up Pick and rolls. Get into more dynamic pick and rolls.
Coach De Raffaele: 42:48
Okay, you touch a system that I really love from maybe more than thirty, twenty five years because Is one of the system that I start using with the young guys and I think that Princeton offense, either with Big mess start on a free to line or big mess start in the low post, really develop players, is one of the best system to develop players, to develop young guys. But also bet on For one simply reason because, except for the five men, all the other spot everybody can play in every spot and everybody can really look for everything with the ball in his hands. With cutting, with play pick at all either. I love, I love, we can all four and five. So really is a system that really Can the players in different ways. I think that the first one, cutting, is one of the most important things because you learn how to play off the ball. Usually we have in our system the Prince of the Offense, one of the basic system offense. I got numbers, all options on that, and we develop in years and we start with calls, become like 20 calls for the Prince of the Offense. But the goal is, especially with young guys, is to cut every calls and only read so dribble, entry, guard to guard pass, guard to wing pass, dribble entry from the guard to the wing, high post entry pass. And this is something amazing if you teach to the players to cut in the right timing, to post up to recognize advantages, natural that. The second one for me is the pick and roll player, because this is another system that really develop and teach how to space the floor and how to attack advantages, either on our defense, on pick and roll, how to react, how to move on baseline cut or to flat or switch on drop defense, either in the middle or on the side. So if I had to answer, I choose the first and the last, as in this case.
Patrick Carney: 44:44
I’d like to ask a question about just implementing the Prince in it and you mentioned there’s so many variations. You usually will start by making it calls. I guess kind of your process of how many calls are you giving them? How do you start to build it Like, let’s say, an ideal world? By the end it’s all read, react and they’re just playing.
Coach De Raffaele: 45:01
I usually start as a global. So five on zero get the focus in the position. Many mostly of my calls in the system as a start lineup is with two guards the high post on free to line and then the two wings on a free to line station outside the three point line. One and two, same position, three and four, same position, many times, one, two and three. Sometimes the four man is in a guard position and we start global, the regular movement. The passer cut, the second on the guard. We use the back screen and start reading the first back screen. From there we start. In many times the pass on the wings is denied by the different. So that’s become the first option with the dribble entry and the first backstop cut the wing. So that’s the first option and we put a general call to the set, the main set that in our system is for, and then from there we really develop different options for any role, for any situation, either for central pick at all, for down, for the wing to post up. Four side was for Austin Day. Guard to guard pass is the only one that we have no calls. But we start from global. Then I usually divide in four on. Four would be two guards, the high post on the wing could be the only the four players without the high post. And we break down a lot of four on four, sometimes three on three, but many times also the warm up is only for how to move the feet, how to backdoor, how to receive the ball, how to face front really to fundamental, because, Prince at home that’s why I told you that develop players really teach you how to play off the ball, how to receive the ball, how to use our body to receive the ball, how to backdoor and how to post up after backdoor if the defense is behind you. So we start many practices with warm up that are one on all and we teach technique, only technique, also technique about bakes to receive and go far away from the defense and face front to have good backdoor pass, because many times the five man is not so a good passer. And then we come back to the global system.
Patrick Carney: 47:11
You did mention, you just like to run four, five pick and rolls. I have a guess, but I’d like to hear why you like the four, five pick and rolls.
Coach De Raffaele: 47:18
For the same reason that I told you, I like everything is strange. Okay, I like play. Sometimes I play five pick and roll with the four because I think that every time you are able to, okay, you need players that really open the mind. That’s the first step that I told you. But, for example, austin Day was amazing about that and he really also opened my eyes on many situations is another point on the court, if you are able to run this kind of pick and roll, figure out in transition when you play pick and roll four and five as a drag situation that farts or a switch to attack immediately with the five man or an eyes on top for him, that is able to attack but also to create some difficulty to the defense because they are not able to recognize, for example, a double delay screen pass to the four, the four and a screen and then screen the five. So probably is a triple switch and the pick and roll is playing by four to the one to the five. Switch is a three point shot. They switch. Probably we got the pointer versus the five or the five versus our four man. Natural the four man has to have some real skills dribbling, passing, cool IQ, basketball IQ, and because not everybody can do it, because if not it’s so dangerous that you create problems. But if you got an unselfish player, but especially a ball handler, I think is really amazing. For example, figure out a single stagger. Okay, you got a regular stagger stagger. The two men come on top, the second stagger is coming on the baseline, the baller right to the three man. Okay, the five keeps going, screening for the four, the baller right to the four, and now everybody clear out and, if nothing happened for a three point shot, the five man screened the ball. So we got a final pick out of four and five, probably the switch for the ball in, or it’s a three point shot, or it’s an eyes of four, because we had always four men able to attack the five men. So these are all situations that we really like to create the advantage and to force the defense to make a choice.
Dan Krikorian: 49:27
Coach, you’re off the start subset hot seat. Thanks for playing that game with us. Great answers there, coach. We got one more question for you to close the show Before we do. Thank you again for coming on, for your thoughts and for your time today.
Coach De Raffaele: 49:40
It was my pleasure. I really enjoyed my time.
Dan Krikorian: 49:42
Thank you, Thank you, coach. Appreciate that, Coach. Our last question that we ask all the guests is what’s the best investment that you’ve made in your career as a coach?
Coach De Raffaele: 49:53
It’s not an easy answer but, technically talking, I think that the best investment is absolutely to don’t think that you know everything. I mean, I think that coaching everybody knows basketball, his own philosophy as a coach or is building his own philosophy. We need to don’t forget that we are also men and we work with men. These are three things that connected together. Let you be a coach Starting from there with your philosophy. I think that the best investment is don’t think that is enough, but keep going, watching, keep going, have curiosity to watch games, to answer, to make questions, to talk, to really develop systems. And every time you invest your time in that, I think that you can bring back and open your mind to how the games is developing in these years, because every time everything changed as systems, as players, as the way to stay on the court, also the way to coach. And the best investment is also to talk with other coaches. Stay with you better than you maybe better is the best thing, because talking you can really have another point of view, another way to stay on the court. And don’t forget that you always work with men. This is something that I always remember, because sometimes we think that we got machine and talking about that, the investment to talk and figure out when you build your stuff and I finish is this is what I’m looking for to having your staff coaches that are good like you, or better than you, or can grow it up like you, serious person. You can count on that accountable person, but that really can create you big doubt during the season and you can discuss and you can fight. You can back up every time but really help you to grow it up. If not, okay, you can coach for 30 years, but this, as I told you, depends for how you are. It depends on every person. There are coachings really respectable that have the same situation for many years, but I think that this is the way to invest, the way to grow it up. As I told to the players, you’ve got 30 years. You can grow it up. You are a coach from 25 years. You can grow it up. You got your philosophy. Keep it, but be open.
Dan Krikorian: 52:18
Alright, pat, you know, oftentimes at the end of these conversations we’re just kind of in this zone of just so many thoughts and questions and want to keep exploring a little bit more. And mostly because it’s just when you get to talk to somebody like coach DeRaphaeli that just think they’re kind of at such a high level and so nuanced and honestly, sometimes so different, maybe too like, and we’ll get into some of his thoughts and just play a little bit differently. It’s always fun, kind of stretches our minds for sure to their limit.
Patrick Carney: 52:47
Yes, definitely and I wrote down. I mean I think if I had the theme for this conversation it was. He likes to play strange, you know, to kind of use his words, and it does come across and you know, obviously our research and watching his team, a lot of the feedback or suggestions we got from other coaches in preparing was that likes to mix it up. Yeah, that definitely ring true in this conversation and I know, as we start to get into it, just all the different ways that you can change the defense to match kind of the opponent, to hide their weaknesses, take away the opponent’s strengths. So, like you said, then it goes back to just these high level guys and kind of just get in a chance to sit in their minds for an hour and hear them talk about all these things and the rules and why they do things was really enjoyable today.
Dan Krikorian: 53:30
Yeah, and a backstory of why we went with the matchup zone and 3-2 and all that is. We’ve, you know, kind of been able to reach out to some coaches that have coached against him throughout the years, know his team well, and they were able to say, hey, this was always an issue or this was something that he just did really well that as an opposing coach, you had to prepare for, knowing they were going to throw these 3-2, these matchup zones at you, and you had to really prepare for it. And so it was fun to pick his brain right away Honestly, what I like why he thought the 3-2 was better from the 2-3. And then, I mean, he gave kind of a masterclass about all the different reasons why and how he preferred to do it.
Patrick Carney: 54:11
I liked your question too because he alluded to he thinks he can protect the 5 or keep the 5 more at home in the 3-2 and keep more speed and favorable matchups on the perimeter. So I like too when he said that sometimes it’ll morph into a 2-3 when it’s on the 5-man side. And I enjoyed that conversation when you followed up and how they do it with kind of bouncing the 5 out and momentarily trapping corners. Yep, you know? Another thing when we are again knew we were going to talk about these matchup zones. You brought it up just like how teams can play with force or aggression when you’re playing a zone defense, because sometimes you know, maybe the stereotype is everyone just kind of sits back, looks pretty in their spots and you’re more reactive. So he was right away on that. I mean I think one of the early things he said is, of course, if the player is in your zone or your area, he wants ball pressure. But then especially with how aggressive they are on the pick and rolls and how they defend the pick and rolls, but he said like just hard hedging.
Dan Krikorian: 55:07
So I mean we didn’t even have to actually ask a follow up on it because you know that was sounded like it was one of his kind of tenets within their zone defenses that they want to be aggressive, proactive, be on the ball and not just kind of sit back and keep their pretty shape and I think maybe it was part of that conversation, but when he started to talk about I think it was your question that I liked on just how do you go pick and rolls from the different areas, yeah, and some of that aggressiveness kind of came out to where talked about basically hedging, coming at the ball with that wing that you know opposite or same side wing, sorry and just like not letting the offense sort of come and set an on-ball screen and at their mercy in a zone but still attacking it while at the same time keeping your fours and fives as kind of the catch or the tag guys on the roll. I thought was a unique, I think for you and I. This isn’t a miss, but this was just like something that I know we both wrote down and talked about. Quickly before hopping on this is studying a little bit more film of him and how in that three to zone, they were hedging and guarding pick and rolls.
Patrick Carney: 56:11
I agree, and I wouldn’t call it a miss because I think both of us would have loved to go down that rabbit hole, but I think we’re. I give him credit because I thought he did a really good job of explaining the situations. But I think we’re always mindful when we get in these tactical conversations. If we go so deep into the weeds it can even get confusing for us, you know, if we’re not on the court or we don’t have a board Right. So I give him credit. I thought he was really clear and we’re able to follow the situations, maybe going deeper. I think we’re always hesitant just because, yeah, maybe it gets too confusing and it’s like we got to remember. This is the medium we’re on.
Dan Krikorian: 56:45
And we do want a couple people to listen to the episode.
Patrick Carney: 56:49
You know, yeah, exactly, yeah, we want it might be tough for a moment. Yeah, exactly, at that point.
Dan Krikorian: 56:55
Or really appreciate them sticking around. But even that one for them.
Patrick Carney: 56:58
And around.
Dan Krikorian: 56:59
But starts up, sit you and I beforehand were. We had fun discussing these, I’ll kick it to you Either one to start with. As far as a takeaway.
Patrick Carney: 57:08
Yeah, I really enjoyed the real life coaching growth conversation. I thought he was excellent and just talking through a losing streak and kind of the realities of it and the decisions you face or what you think about, and I liked then getting into the conversation of your most important player versus your best player and it’s a conversation we’ve been having a lot just with leadership and the standard setters versus, like, the vocal leaders and how, when you’re in a losing streak, he said communicating with the vocal leaders, who he was saying your most important players are probably more critical at these times because they can hopefully transmit the message Keep the belief, keep the locker room intact.
Dan Krikorian: 57:45
And so I appreciated that distinction and just hearing why he labeled that guy your most important player for sure, and I’m glad that you followed up and asked him to go deeper on that, I think, because yeah, that was an interesting statement. I agree with you. I think that question you and I were talking about beforehand the kind of real life coaching stuff. You know, as we’re recording this, we’re in the middle of sort of the offseason growth phase for everyone and we’re super fortunate here to get to talk to coaches all over the world who are trying to improve in the offseason and hear their thoughts and what they’re thinking about and what they’re watching and you know, clinics, they’re going to all the stuff that’s really really good for development. But we were talking about, you know, the best things sometimes are when you mess up, when you fail. You know when you’re losing, when you lose a close game, something doesn’t go well with the player confrontation. I think, like for you and I it was interesting to hear him who someone who’s been in it for a long time talk about that losing streak and how it just helps define you as a coach and what you believe in and sort of the unpredictability of coaching itself as far as just wins and losses can be a bad bounce here or there.
Patrick Carney: 58:56
So talking about misses because in his best investment all set up when we were coming up with this question you had mentioned to coach to coach confrontation the head coach with your assistant confrontation and in his best investment he mentioned the importance of having sometimes those coach to coach confrontations or being able to have discussions and arguments over them. So maybe that was a miss. We were thinking about putting it in there and then he kind of alluded to it at the end. Could have been an interesting conversation just to hear him discuss more how he views his staff relationships and building a staff.
Dan Krikorian: 59:28
Maybe we’ll sort of recycle that question in a different way and add that in, because that was the fourth option that we were thinking to add in. Like the confrontation, I guess being the right word, maybe, but just something with your staff that doesn’t go well, like we were talking about someone messes up a scout, or the decision was wrong, or you listen to someone, an idea that didn’t work, or, honestly, like your staff is not getting along, or whatever it is, and what you learned from that as a head coach and I agree with you it would have been interesting to hear his thought on it and maybe we’ll surface that somewhere else.
Patrick Carney: 1:00:05
I think there was a lot of ideas that can kind of come out of just that umbrella of a question. So I’m sure we’ll start Sub sit trade.
Dan Krikorian: 1:00:13
We should add it. Yeah, so the other one. I’ll just jump in real quick. The Princeton stuff. I mean that you could tell he could have just gone for a long time. Yeah, that was also his cup of tea, yeah, yeah, and I think that overall there’s a lot to be said and there’s a lot out there about the Princeton offense. We don’t need to, you know it’s not news to anybody, yeah, but I think what we always like to get into is the Princeton offense on its face is one thing, but I think how a coach like him thinks about it in a sense of building other parts of his offense, and why you do it that was really a point of us asking those different questions is like what is it about the Princeton itself that is most valuable to setting up your offense? And he mentioned being able to teach those four guys, especially to play the player development side of it and becoming good players.
Patrick Carney: 1:01:07
I give you credit because you were good too when we said that putting down setting up the pick and roll and I mean that was his sub and you know kind of what you thought when we were thinking this question through is and he alluded to just the ability to get into different pick and roll actions, get a little bit more dynamic into them. And then I guess where he finished and where he started, just with his strange theme that he just likes to play strange, as then it allowed him to to get into some four or five pick and rolls, just why he likes those and the confusion and being able to create mismatches out of them, kind of bring it full circle with playing strange. Yeah.
Dan Krikorian: 1:01:39
And the Princeton does offer some opportunities where you can get to that four or five pick and roll in a natural way that forces a decision by the defense, Like you said. If they want to switch it, that is fine with him. To have usually an athletic and skilled four be able to go at their five. Just to put a bow on it too with the pick and roll stuff, Tom Izzo, Michigan State, for years, and I know there’s others out there that run it, but they’ve always run kind of a nice chin series that you know. After that shuffle or back screen by the five flows into a high like middle pick and roll and it always gets that defensive big dislodged from the screener because they have to help for a second on that back cut. Now you’re not worried about the hedge as much or there’s just a little bit disconnectedness with that on ball and so I just think like setting it up that way allows a team to kind of dictate a pick and roll. So fun to hear him talk about that stuff there. You know he mentioned visiting us when he’s out here. He’s got invitation anytime he wants to. Thank you and I can any of them, absolutely yeah. We’ll meet him wherever to talk some more strange basketball. Strange but good basketball, exactly, yeah. So well, there’s nothing else, let’s do it. Thanks everybody for listening and we’ll see you again next time.